Comments on: 2022 and why dates aren’t what matter http://ajaxian.com/archives/2012-html5 Cleaning up the web with Ajax Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:30:04 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: marcosc http://ajaxian.com/archives/2012-html5/comment-page-1#comment-267430 marcosc Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:01:49 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=4430#comment-267430 The reason that World Wide Web **Consortium*** produces Recommendations is that the W3C _is NOT a standards body_, it is a "consortia" (look up the definition!). The difference is that standards bodies, like ISO, produce standards that can become law; with legal consequences for those who do not follow them. On the other hand, a consortium, like the W3C, can only produce "recommendations" because there is no legal recourse for companies not following a recommendation. Now, Anne is correct to say that the HTML5 spec should be considered mostly done by 2009 (yes! DONE! AS IN "FINISHED"!). Anne, and the W3C process document, make it really clear that recommendation means two fully interoperable implementations. To have interoperable implementations you need something to test against (a test suite). Test suites that capture all the features of HTML 5 working together will take 11+ years to produce because HTML5 is so complex. On the other hand, it means that development of HTML6 could begin as early as 2010. People should get over the date and just enjoy the new features. Leave the process up to the standards people. The reason that World Wide Web **Consortium*** produces Recommendations is that the W3C _is NOT a standards body_, it is a “consortia” (look up the definition!). The difference is that standards bodies, like ISO, produce standards that can become law; with legal consequences for those who do not follow them. On the other hand, a consortium, like the W3C, can only produce “recommendations” because there is no legal recourse for companies not following a recommendation.

Now, Anne is correct to say that the HTML5 spec should be considered mostly done by 2009 (yes! DONE! AS IN “FINISHED”!). Anne, and the W3C process document, make it really clear that recommendation means two fully interoperable implementations. To have interoperable implementations you need something to test against (a test suite). Test suites that capture all the features of HTML 5 working together will take 11+ years to produce because HTML5 is so complex.

On the other hand, it means that development of HTML6 could begin as early as 2010.

People should get over the date and just enjoy the new features. Leave the process up to the standards people.

]]> By: mawe http://ajaxian.com/archives/2012-html5/comment-page-1#comment-267424 mawe Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:51:49 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=4430#comment-267424 2022? By then neuro implants equipped with Flash Player 38 will be developed and that'll render HTML5 useless. I totally agree with eyelidlessness: It's a difficult job, but more than ten years? 2022? By then neuro implants equipped with Flash Player 38 will be developed and that’ll render HTML5 useless.

I totally agree with eyelidlessness: It’s a difficult job, but more than ten years?

]]> By: eyelidlessness http://ajaxian.com/archives/2012-html5/comment-page-1#comment-267408 eyelidlessness Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:12:20 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=4430#comment-267408 This is such a sad joke. Just goes to show that our new standards overlords are totally out of touch, despite being shining beacons of being in touch with reality as compared to our old standards overlords. . <strong>To WHAT WG/W3C:</strong> This kind of stuff is why people are distrustful of you and consider you irrelevant. Sure, the date is "not significant"; it's just a message to all of us that the standards process is so bureaucratic and full of unnecessary obstacles as to require a <strong>decade and a half</strong> to complete a specification. . And we're supposed to start using it before that? Do you guys do web development? Like, ever? When fully half of your work is working around implementation differences, you're supposed to be encouraged that you can start using "the shiny new stuff" in <strong>different parts of differently implemented interpretations of an incomplete spec</strong> across a browser landscape that never seems to converge? . Moreover, as much as WHAT has given the IE team flack for its duplicitous participation in the standards process, you guys just gave them free reign to do whatever the hell they want with this spec for the next decade or more. When we complain that IE isn't cooperating, we'll face the completely moronic retort that they can't be expected to fully implement an incomplete standard: <strong>just like CSS 3</strong>. . It's not like we don't understand, the job in front of you is difficult. Standardizing all the nonsense that existing web practices entail is... a monumental task. But if you can't make it happen in over a decade, something is very wrong. This is such a sad joke. Just goes to show that our new standards overlords are totally out of touch, despite being shining beacons of being in touch with reality as compared to our old standards overlords.
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To WHAT WG/W3C: This kind of stuff is why people are distrustful of you and consider you irrelevant. Sure, the date is “not significant”; it’s just a message to all of us that the standards process is so bureaucratic and full of unnecessary obstacles as to require a decade and a half to complete a specification.
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And we’re supposed to start using it before that? Do you guys do web development? Like, ever? When fully half of your work is working around implementation differences, you’re supposed to be encouraged that you can start using “the shiny new stuff” in different parts of differently implemented interpretations of an incomplete spec across a browser landscape that never seems to converge?
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Moreover, as much as WHAT has given the IE team flack for its duplicitous participation in the standards process, you guys just gave them free reign to do whatever the hell they want with this spec for the next decade or more. When we complain that IE isn’t cooperating, we’ll face the completely moronic retort that they can’t be expected to fully implement an incomplete standard: just like CSS 3.
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It’s not like we don’t understand, the job in front of you is difficult. Standardizing all the nonsense that existing web practices entail is… a monumental task. But if you can’t make it happen in over a decade, something is very wrong.

]]> By: Ben http://ajaxian.com/archives/2012-html5/comment-page-1#comment-267393 Ben Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:29:04 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=4430#comment-267393 "Agile" recommendations ^^ “Agile” recommendations ^^

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