Comments on: Adobe Flex vs. Gaia Ajax Widgets: The gloves come off! http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off Cleaning up the web with Ajax Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:55:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2 By: polterguy http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-263300 polterguy Thu, 01 May 2008 23:26:48 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-263300 @nbarger Gaia has three prices, one is free as in freedom where you develop GPL derivates yourself. The second is royalty free usage where you pay 295 EURO per developer. The third is free for developers where you pay 295 EURO per server and/or domain... If you want free as in free beer stuff there's always ASP.NET Ajax (mostly abandoned by Microsoft ;)) or Anthem.NET (abandoned by James Diamond ;) or Ajax.NET Pro (abandoned by Michael Scwharz ;) though... Do you see the pattern here...? ;) Free as in "free beer" is unfortunately not a way we've been able to run a business with a lot of developers trying to do our best to create a great Ajax Framework... Beside if you do the math on the time you're saving on using Gaia compared to all other Ajax Frameworks I know about, we're actually *giving*you*money* during your first week of development... @nbarger
Gaia has three prices, one is free as in freedom where you develop GPL derivates yourself. The second is royalty free usage where you pay 295 EURO per developer. The third is free for developers where you pay 295 EURO per server and/or domain…
If you want free as in free beer stuff there’s always ASP.NET Ajax (mostly abandoned by Microsoft ;)) or Anthem.NET (abandoned by James Diamond ;) or Ajax.NET Pro (abandoned by Michael Scwharz ;) though…
Do you see the pattern here…? ;)
Free as in “free beer” is unfortunately not a way we’ve been able to run a business with a lot of developers trying to do our best to create a great Ajax Framework…
Beside if you do the math on the time you’re saving on using Gaia compared to all other Ajax Frameworks I know about, we’re actually *giving*you*money* during your first week of development…

]]> By: nbarger http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-261910 nbarger Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:11:53 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-261910 GAIA SUCKS! Try to use it and then before you begin creating stuff with it recognize the EXPENSIVE licensing model. Oh we provide the code GPL but if you want to put it on the internet then you have to buy a license, and for 1 server it will cost you $450! ! ! Maybe we should all send all of our money to the GAIA people. I like open source stuff anyways, like athem GAIA SUCKS!

Try to use it and then before you begin creating stuff with it recognize the EXPENSIVE licensing model. Oh we provide the code GPL but if you want to put it on the internet then you have to buy a license, and for 1 server it will cost you $450! ! ! Maybe we should all send all of our money to the GAIA people. I like open source stuff anyways, like athem

]]> By: cjoplin http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-260219 cjoplin Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:22:09 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-260219 Gaia's market appears to be more driven towards .Net developers, and the thing they fear and hate the most right now is Flex and Flash. With good reason, because for Microsoft, Adobe could be to web tools competition what Google is to search. This link is pure market pandering and FUD, with a focused audience -- Microsoft zombies. This is simply an end-around business pitch saying "Use Microsoft and Gaia." Even if all this propaganda were actually true, it's completely irrelevant. Flex and Flash are making a solid, substantial place for themselves in the market. One of those places is video; remember YouTube? Gaia ia an ant. It can take it's gloves off all it wants, and never get noticed. This was certainly entertaining, I laughed out loud several times. ;) Gaia’s market appears to be more driven towards .Net developers, and the thing they fear and hate the most right now is Flex and Flash. With good reason, because for Microsoft, Adobe could be to web tools competition what Google is to search. This link is pure market pandering and FUD, with a focused audience — Microsoft zombies. This is simply an end-around business pitch saying “Use Microsoft and Gaia.” Even if all this propaganda were actually true, it’s completely irrelevant. Flex and Flash are making a solid, substantial place for themselves in the market. One of those places is video; remember YouTube? Gaia ia an ant. It can take it’s gloves off all it wants, and never get noticed. This was certainly entertaining, I laughed out loud several times. ;)

]]> By: Mark Scott http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-257173 Mark Scott Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:51:27 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-257173 @Bryan Grossman -- I agree with your comments. I have been forced into working with Flex on a project - and I hated just about every minute of it. Yes, it made some very nice looking interfaces - but then it came time to wire up the back-end code and the "fun" began. I kept saying to myself "You've got to be kidding"... and longed to scrap the whole dang project and just get it done in ASP.NET - with or without any Ajax. The support options available to me for Flex where next to nothing. Finding code samples - good luck. However, there is a HUGE support community available for both ASP.NET and Ajax (in general). I'm currently evaluating Gaia - and whether to use it versus ASP.NET AJAX 1.0 and/or Anthem.NET. I have to say that I'm very impressed thus far. We just have to get past the fact that the other two Ajax libraries are "free". You get what you pay for comes to mind :) @Bryan Grossman — I agree with your comments.

I have been forced into working with Flex on a project – and I hated just about every minute of it. Yes, it made some very nice looking interfaces – but then it came time to wire up the back-end code and the “fun” began. I kept saying to myself “You’ve got to be kidding”… and longed to scrap the whole dang project and just get it done in ASP.NET – with or without any Ajax. The support options available to me for Flex where next to nothing. Finding code samples – good luck. However, there is a HUGE support community available for both ASP.NET and Ajax (in general).

I’m currently evaluating Gaia – and whether to use it versus ASP.NET AJAX 1.0 and/or Anthem.NET. I have to say that I’m very impressed thus far. We just have to get past the fact that the other two Ajax libraries are “free”. You get what you pay for comes to mind :)

]]> By: Bryan Grossman http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255425 Bryan Grossman Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:47:12 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255425 I think as a user of the Gaia Widgets I might be able to give my opinion.. The Gaia controls are quite good.. I was skeptical at first but after using it for some of my projects I am VERY impressed with the polish and “wow” it gives to my web applications. I and my customers are very happy with my choice to use the Gaia Widgets. Now does it have rough spots… sure it does… but the support is astounding and the people I have worked with were very friendly, Thomas being one of them. I am sure those rough spots will be buffed out in no time. It seems to me many people here are have a negative opinion only because they don’t like the way the comparison of Gaia to Adobe was presented. And I also believe that many here seem to have invested much time and emotion in some other toolkit.. So they feel there is no longer any need for “another one”… “Ignorance is bliss…” Isn’t that true if you discount something without investigating it… isn’t that being ignorant… BG P.S. Before some of you start up, no one from Gaia contacted my to write this... I think as a user of the Gaia Widgets I might be able to give my opinion.. The Gaia controls are quite good.. I was skeptical at first but after using it for some of my projects I am VERY impressed with the polish and “wow” it gives to my web applications. I and my customers are very happy with my choice to use the Gaia Widgets. Now does it have rough spots… sure it does… but the support is astounding and the people I have worked with were very friendly, Thomas being one of them. I am sure those rough spots will be buffed out in no time.
It seems to me many people here are have a negative opinion only because they don’t like the way the comparison of Gaia to Adobe was presented. And I also believe that many here seem to have invested much time and emotion in some other toolkit.. So they feel there is no longer any need for “another one”…

“Ignorance is bliss…” Isn’t that true if you discount something without investigating it… isn’t that being ignorant…

BG

P.S. Before some of you start up, no one from Gaia contacted my to write this…

]]> By: twat http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255368 twat Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:12:30 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255368 Ignorance is bliss eh Hansen? Ignorance is bliss eh Hansen?

]]> By: Thomas Hansen http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255136 Thomas Hansen Fri, 07 Sep 2007 06:38:58 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255136 @Jeff Howden Let me see if I understand you correct, just because I've got an unpopular opinion I should be silenced...? Now I don't mean to associate myself with people of far greater importance than myself, but if you look at history you'll see a lot of other people having unpopular opinions; Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Socrates and even Jesus! Socrates and Jesus was even sentenced to DEATH because of their unpopular opinions. This very interesting phenomena is actually re-occurring so often it has a name (Platou wrote a book about it too) "Dictatorship of Democracy" Thomas @Jeff Howden
Let me see if I understand you correct, just because I’ve got an unpopular opinion I should be silenced…?
Now I don’t mean to associate myself with people of far greater importance than myself, but if you look at history you’ll see a lot of other people having unpopular opinions; Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Socrates and even Jesus!
Socrates and Jesus was even sentenced to DEATH because of their unpopular opinions.
This very interesting phenomena is actually re-occurring so often it has a name (Platou wrote a book about it too)
“Dictatorship of Democracy”

Thomas

]]> By: Jeff Howden http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255126 Jeff Howden Fri, 07 Sep 2007 00:42:15 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255126 Somebody *please* silence this useless attention whore (Thomas Hansen). Somebody *please* silence this useless attention whore (Thomas Hansen).

]]> By: Thomas Hansen http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255087 Thomas Hansen Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:12:20 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255087 Btw, one funny detail... I was heading for the Adobe Flex Forums over at adobe.com to post a link to my blog about my newly acquired knowledge about what Adobe Flex actually REALLY is and I couldn't help noticing that the forums are built using (probably I assume) Cold Fusion and not Adobe Flex. (which is supposed to be such a "Rich Internet Application" Framework) Can any of you Adobe Choir boys tell me why is that...? I thought I was supposed to use Flex for so-called "Rich Internet Applications"...? Btw, one funny detail…
I was heading for the Adobe Flex Forums over at adobe.com to post a link to my blog about my newly acquired knowledge about what Adobe Flex actually REALLY is and I couldn’t help noticing that the forums are built using (probably I assume) Cold Fusion and not Adobe Flex. (which is supposed to be such a “Rich Internet Application” Framework)

Can any of you Adobe Choir boys tell me why is that…?

I thought I was supposed to use Flex for so-called “Rich Internet Applications”…?

]]> By: Thomas Hansen http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255083 Thomas Hansen Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:45:59 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255083 @Vance Dubberly No, but Mono's Open Source implementation of the standardized .Net runtime, compiler and C# specification is... Btw for all you Adobe Choir boys here, I've written another blog putting Flex back to where it belongs; alongside Power Point for presentations and similar non-code constructs; http://ajaxwidgets.com/Blogs/thomas/adobe_flex_sucks__use_powerpoi.bb Thomas Hansen @Vance Dubberly
No, but Mono’s Open Source implementation of the standardized .Net runtime, compiler and C# specification is…

Btw for all you Adobe Choir boys here, I’ve written another blog putting Flex back to where it belongs; alongside Power Point for presentations and similar non-code constructs; http://ajaxwidgets.com/Blogs/thomas/adobe_flex_sucks__use_powerpoi.bb

Thomas Hansen

]]> By: vance Dubberly http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255081 vance Dubberly Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:35:12 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255081 Yes because microsoft's .NET is less evil than Adobe's Actionscript. Moron. Yes because microsoft’s .NET is less evil than Adobe’s Actionscript. Moron.

]]> By: Thomas Hansen http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255037 Thomas Hansen Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:10:01 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255037 @Chris Phillips Ha, ha, ha...! :D That story will definitely reach my long term memory... ;) @Chris Phillips
Ha, ha, ha…! :D
That story will definitely reach my long term memory… ;)

]]> By: Chris Phillips http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255035 Chris Phillips Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:43:10 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255035 <blockquote>Adobe is ActiveX 2.0, or Java Applets 2.0 if you wish!</blockquote> I couldn't agree more. I Remember back in 1997 an Adobe sales team tried to get us to transition our entire intranet to cross-linked PDF files. Of course that was back in the day the PDF plugin didn't take 5 minutes to load up [I know it is faster in version 8]. It's not Adobe you have to worry about, it's who eventually buys them out! Just look at the number of former Macromedia tools/technologies that Adobe killed off in the name of "synergy" and stock-price. I'd hate to have written a large enterprise level site or application only to have the rug pulled out from under it because Adobe buggers up the plugin or decides the product isn't profitable so they kill it.

Adobe is ActiveX 2.0, or Java Applets 2.0 if you wish!

I couldn’t agree more. I Remember back in 1997 an Adobe sales team tried to get us to transition our entire intranet to cross-linked PDF files. Of course that was back in the day the PDF plugin didn’t take 5 minutes to load up [I know it is faster in version 8].

It’s not Adobe you have to worry about, it’s who eventually buys them out! Just look at the number of former Macromedia tools/technologies that Adobe killed off in the name of “synergy” and stock-price.

I’d hate to have written a large enterprise level site or application only to have the rug pulled out from under it because Adobe buggers up the plugin or decides the product isn’t profitable so they kill it.

]]> By: Thomas Hansen http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255031 Thomas Hansen Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:30:14 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255031 @Phil Swenson Thank you for an intelligent comment, I don't see too many of those after I officially "declared war" upon Adobe... ;) Yup! Both of your arguments are true! Regarding the Flash/Flex user experience I'd never disagree on that it's better than the JavaScript/Ajax/DHTML user experience, but the gap is closing in every day and very soon you will see that about the only thing JS solutions won't be able to do is Video and such "big FPS demanding" apps... About committees that's totally true, JavaScript, CSS and XHTML however ARE standardized, and the standards are pretty awesome too! No need to use something that's not standardized then ;) (unless you're creating Flash Games or Video Players that is) @Phil Swenson
Thank you for an intelligent comment, I don’t see too many of those after I officially “declared war” upon Adobe… ;)
Yup! Both of your arguments are true!
Regarding the Flash/Flex user experience I’d never disagree on that it’s better than the JavaScript/Ajax/DHTML user experience, but the gap is closing in every day and very soon you will see that about the only thing JS solutions won’t be able to do is Video and such “big FPS demanding” apps…
About committees that’s totally true, JavaScript, CSS and XHTML however ARE standardized, and the standards are pretty awesome too!
No need to use something that’s not standardized then ;)
(unless you’re creating Flash Games or Video Players that is)

]]> By: phil swenson http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255030 phil swenson Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:05:29 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255030 One thing you didn't address: flex has a better user experience than any of the ajax libraries. Sorry, but javascript has its limits. Every technology is a bet. Look at SVG: standards based, open source, etc. But flash pretty much killed it because it's so much more powerful and has better tools. Another point I don't see made often enough: design by committee doesn't work well. Committees tend to over-design and get bogged down in vested interests and "process". The best designs are done by small groups of very smart people with complete control (witness Ruby on Rails). One thing you didn’t address: flex has a better user experience than any of the ajax libraries. Sorry, but javascript has its limits.

Every technology is a bet. Look at SVG: standards based, open source, etc. But flash pretty much killed it because it’s so much more powerful and has better tools.

Another point I don’t see made often enough: design by committee doesn’t work well. Committees tend to over-design and get bogged down in vested interests and “process”. The best designs are done by small groups of very smart people with complete control (witness Ruby on Rails).

]]> By: Thomas Hansen http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255014 Thomas Hansen Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:21:48 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255014 @Sanjiv Telerik have pretty awesome controls if you're looking for a pre-fabricated house and not building blocks to build one yourself... Only works with ASP.NET though and no Mono... Too bad you'll have to download a terabyte of JS to execute them though (Telerik), our COMPLETE JAVASCRIPT is 450 KB and after compressing we'll get it down to somewhere around 50KB... And that's for EVERY SINGLE WIDGET WE HAVE... Normally you'd never download JS for more than 10-20% of our widgets at the same page... ASP.NET AJAX (Toolkit Extension) is also pretty "nice looking" only there you'll have to YOURSELF DEVELOP a TERABYTE of JavaScript before it's useful in anything more advanced than "Hello World 2.0"... .t @Sanjiv
Telerik have pretty awesome controls if you’re looking for a pre-fabricated house and not building blocks to build one yourself…
Only works with ASP.NET though and no Mono…
Too bad you’ll have to download a terabyte of JS to execute them though (Telerik), our COMPLETE JAVASCRIPT is 450 KB and after compressing we’ll get it down to somewhere around 50KB…
And that’s for EVERY SINGLE WIDGET WE HAVE…
Normally you’d never download JS for more than 10-20% of our widgets at the same page…
ASP.NET AJAX (Toolkit Extension) is also pretty “nice looking” only there you’ll have to YOURSELF DEVELOP a TERABYTE of JavaScript before it’s useful in anything more advanced than “Hello World 2.0″…

.t

]]> By: Thomas Hansen http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255013 Thomas Hansen Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:17:03 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255013 @patrick I think the first RFC for the telnet protocol is from about 1967 something...! @WarAxe If your only "constructive" criticism is about my spelling skills then I suggest you apply to become an English teacher... @patrick
I think the first RFC for the telnet protocol is from about 1967 something…!
@WarAxe
If your only “constructive” criticism is about my spelling skills then I suggest you apply to become an English teacher…

]]> By: Sanjiv Jivan http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255012 Sanjiv Jivan Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:16:56 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255012 Thomas wrote : "I promised myself I wouldn’t do this, but I’ll jump and answer (@Sanjiv) First of all the only Ajax Frameworks you mention there which has Server Bindings are Java Frameworks! Second; To compare a client-side script library with a server-side binded Ajax Framework is like comparing wheels and Boeing Airplanes!" I said the list goes on.. :) RadControls with ASP.NET binding has a really slick looking UI (comparable to Ext). http://www.telerik.com/demos/aspnet/Controls/Examples/Default/DefaultCS.aspx The .NET community based AJAX Control Toolkit with ASP.NET bindings also looks pretty sharp. Check out the examples here : http://www.asp.net/AJAX/Control-Toolkit/Live/ Thomas wrote : “I promised myself I wouldn’t do this, but I’ll jump and answer (@Sanjiv)

First of all the only Ajax Frameworks you mention there which has Server Bindings are Java Frameworks!

Second; To compare a client-side script library with a server-side binded Ajax Framework is like comparing wheels and Boeing Airplanes!”

I said the list goes on.. :)

RadControls with ASP.NET binding has a really slick looking UI (comparable to Ext).
http://www.telerik.com/demos/aspnet/Controls/Examples/Default/DefaultCS.aspx

The .NET community based AJAX Control Toolkit with ASP.NET bindings also looks pretty sharp. Check out the examples here :
http://www.asp.net/AJAX/Control-Toolkit/Live/

]]> By: Patrick Whittingham http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255010 Patrick Whittingham Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:41:49 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255010 What??? Last 4 decade of the web standard...please. talk logic not FUD. What??? Last 4 decade of the web standard…please. talk logic not FUD.

]]> By: WarAxe http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-flex-vs-gaia-ajax-widgets-the-gloves-come-off/comment-page-1#comment-255009 WarAxe Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:17:03 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=2738#comment-255009 Thomas Hansen said: "@ WJ That is just the worst but licking piece of literate crap I have ever read in the whole of my life…! I probably shouldn’t have posted this comment either, but the temptation was just TOO great…" --- Oh my, Mr. Hansen. I do fear that your spelling skills and self-control are beginning to match the clarity of your IT awareness. I shan't comment further, for surely if the Ajaxian chorus does not enlighten thee even a little, then you are beyond my skill to heal. Thomas Hansen said: “@ WJ
That is just the worst but licking piece of literate crap I have ever read in the whole of my life…!
I probably shouldn’t have posted this comment either, but the temptation was just TOO great…”
—
Oh my, Mr. Hansen. I do fear that your spelling skills and self-control are beginning to match the clarity of your IT awareness. I shan’t comment further, for surely if the Ajaxian chorus does not enlighten thee even a little, then you are beyond my skill to heal.

]]>