Comments on: Apple Store hits the Dojo

By: ceviri

ceviri — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:36:17 +0000

Your comment contains very useful information about all thank you Tercüme

By: ziggy

ziggy — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:17:13 +0000

Tom, it completely froze my FF up, and loading images never freezes the browser.

I just tried the dojo email example using 0.9 and it completely seized ff2 for about 10 seconds. ( http://dojotoolkit.org/demos/email-using-0-9 )

>>@ziggy: donâ€™t you think this is also a browser issue? The browser should not allow itself to be locked up, and in fact it will not lock up in newer browsers, e.g. FF 3 and Opera 9.5.

I always thought it was to do with dojo’s synchronous loading or some such thing. In any case, I’ve never experienced it with other libraries so, while it would be better if the browsers didn’t lock up, it’s something dojo causes because of the way it loads modules. When I posted the same thing here last year, Alex didn’t even seem to know about it from his reply, which is weird:

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I find dojo freezes firefox completely for a few seconds onload. At least the dojo example pages do. Very annoying.
Comment by ziggy â€” August 16, 2006

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Ziggy: which example pages? are they using a build or are they from source? Builds should be pretty snappy. See the test pages at: http://download.dojotoolkit.org/release-0.3.1/dojo-0.3.1-widget/tests/widget/
Comment by Alex Russell â€” August 16, 2006

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>>Ziggy: which example pages? are they using a build or are they from source? Builds should be pretty snappy.

Sorry, for the delay, Alex.

Just tried again. Go to your homepage, freezes the entire browser for a couple seconds. Stutters for a moment, then freezes again, then the page is loaded finally. Doesnâ€™t matter if Iâ€™m on that tab or not. FF1.506, XP. Does it every time unless I just loaded it. Does it again briefly when clicking to view a first demo.

Sorry, only website I experience it on anywhere, and been the same since I first visited ages ago.
Comment by ziggy â€” August 24, 2006

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Alex, I just tried the new filter/sort table example and it SERIOUSLY locked up the browser to the point where it even disappeared from my task bar and went all white and only came back after 5-10 seconds.

Hope it helps.
Comment by ziggy â€” August 24, 2006
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By: Tom Trenka

Tom Trenka — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:02:48 +0000

@Les: thank you, got it.

@JohnDoe: troll.

By: Les

Les — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:47:38 +0000

Sure, I created Ticket #4615: Module loading locks up browser

By: JohnDoe

JohnDoe — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 10:33:44 +0000

Dohjo sucks bigtime..it crashes the browser so often and its SLOW SLOW SLOW!

Does the AppleStore works like this now? Yes? Then GOTO HELL!

By: Tom Trenka

Tom Trenka — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 04:07:12 +0000

@Les:
Mind filing a bug on the Dojo Trac for that? Steps to recreate are invaluable, and this sounds like it’s pretty straightforward to reproduce. http://trac.dojotoolkit.org, guest/guest.

By: anonymous

anonymous — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:06:57 +0000

now i truly believe that dojo is sucks, especially 0.9 (i come to this while we were converting site from 0.4.3 to 0.9, it’s a pain in the ass). I think from now on we’ll switch to extjs or something

By: Les

Les — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:00:44 +0000

@Tom:
Steps to recreate the problem:
1.) Open http://dojotoolkit.org/demos/email-using-0-9 and cnn.com in two tabs.
2.) Reload both tabs.
3.) Try switching btwn tabs while the Dojo demo is loading.

On FF 2, you won’t be able to switch tabs until Dojo is done loading modules presumably b/c the browser in locked. In IE7, you will get an unspecified error on Line 20 when you try to switch tabs.

Again this works smoothly in FF 3 and Opera 9.5

By: Tom Trenka

Tom Trenka — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:05:54 +0000

@ziggy: Open up the Apple store with FF using Firebug and take a look in the Net tab. Dojo is not freezing that site at all; most of the time spent is loading images from different domains. I think you’re referring to Dojo 0.4, particularly on pages with lots of widgets defined via markup. If you try any of the Dijit test pages (0.9+), you’ll find that that freeze has been eliminated for the most part.

By: Les

Les — Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:07:21 +0000

@ziggy: don’t you think this is also a browser issue? The browser should not allow itself to be locked up, and in fact it will not lock up in newer browsers, e.g. FF 3 and Opera 9.5. But, I agree with you this should be addressed for older browsers such as IE7 or FF 2. The browser should not lock up while modules are loaded. You can’t switch tabs b/c it locks up or you get an error (on IE7).

By: ziggy

ziggy — Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:08:42 +0000

If you mean my comment, it has nothing to do with switching tabs, it is the type of loading used. Load a dojo page in FF and it seizes up the entire browser for seconds.

By: Les

Les — Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:14:34 +0000

yep, dynamic script loading is a problem while switching tabs (which I do often). I tested it on IE7, Safari 3 (Windows) and FF 2.0. Interestingly, it works fine on FF 3.

By: ziggy

ziggy — Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:26:21 +0000

So now Apple completely seizes up Firefox for seconds at a time on load like other sites using Dojo.

When in god’s name are they going to fix that and why did they ever think that was a good way to load js?

By: Andrew Dupont

Andrew Dupont — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:00:34 +0000

I just revisited the thread in question on the prototype-core list. As he states, Jeff got a response the next day from fellow core member Tobie Langel. It wasn’t the response that he was looking for, but it was a prompt response regardless.

I would’ve replied much the same way, but also might’ve suggested that Jeff at least file a bug if he was unwilling to write a patch. The mailing list, though appropriate for the question he was asking, is much less useful for bug-tracking. Adding a Trac ticket allows us to verify the bug, categorize it, and write the patch ourselves.

Also, as far as I can tell, the issue he was asking about has been fixed in the 1.6 release candidate. My copy of JavaScript lint reports 45 warnings on Prototype 1.6 â€” all of which complain about the aesthetics of uncommon, yet valid, code constructs. There are no “undeclared identifier” warnings.

By: Les

Les — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:49:36 +0000

The online version of JavaScript Lint will not accept scripts larger than 128 KB – this limit is too small.
http://www.javascriptlint.com/online_lint.php

By: Tom Trenka

Tom Trenka — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:27:37 +0000

BTW, let me clarify that that last comment is not a snipe at Prototype; we’re all super busy and can’t always respond to everyone all the time, particularly when most of us do this part-time and spend a lot of time buried in other things.

By: Tom Trenka

Tom Trenka — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:21:00 +0000

@Jeff: No worries, I’m just glad to hear that you’re considering it at all–and I’m entirely with you on the bandwidth problems! If it helps, 0.9 is a bit less namespace-depthy than 0.4 was, but we do still try to be very considerate of the host object (most of the reason why we did that in the first place). And I’d just like to clarify that I was taking your statements over J’s (I typoed in my first post, “of” should have said “over”: “so Iâ€™m more inclined to respect his opinion *over* yours”). Any way we can be of assistance, just ask :)
@Wayne: I didn’t say that. Re-read my post, please :) Think Jeff said that, actually.
@All others slamming Jeff over Lint: everyone has thier own standards, and Jeff’s are a bit higher than others in some respects. If he chooses to use JavaScript Lint over other tools and take the results seriously, that’s his choice–after all, he’s working on a very high profile site. Jeff’s point about the lack of response from the Prototype team was the main point of what he is getting at, IMHO.

By: headalphadog

headalphadog — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:09:19 +0000

@alphadog – thats just it, he isnt using the best tools (and or) he is using them incorrectly.

By: alphadog

alphadog — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:01:19 +0000

@Mike: So adding features should be front-seat, whereas code quality should be secondary? Hmm. Personally, I don’t know Jeff, but I appreciate Jeff’s serious efforts to use the best tools at his disposal. Too many developers cut corners.

By: Andrew Dupont

Andrew Dupont — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:49:38 +0000

While it can be configured to warn about pedantic things, it also has a very real capacity for finding bugs.

And reasonable people can disagree on which warnings are pedantic and which might reasonably prevent bugs. Jeff, I invite you to go through the long list of warnings and categorize them. The vast majority, I'll wager, are warnings about omitted braces (in places where braces are optional) and omitted semicolons (in places where semicolons are optional â€” although we do fix these as we come across them in the code).

I donâ€™t check in any files that arenâ€™t 100% free of warnings.

But here you're conflating linter warnings with compiler warnings. A linter is, by its nature, nitpicky. Even the warnings generated by the Firefox console are more noise than signal. I understand the importance of getting out from under a huge stack of annoying messages, but above all else I try to write code that can be easily parsed by interpreters and humans alike. And I think it's unfair to suggest that we're not acting professionally simply because we have different code conventions than one particular code linter.