Comments on: CDNs Gaining Broader Use with JavaScript Libraries http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries Cleaning up the web with Ajax Thu, 17 May 2012 07:43:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: TNO http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269358 TNO Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:57:40 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269358 <b>I also think that if you’re going to say something “sucks”, you should explain why. It would help newcomers determine what product would be the ideal match for them based on other people’s opinions.</b> . @pharmx: Just look at my previous comments in reply to Thomas on earlier posts for more depth to the arguments: http://ajaxian.com/archives/jx-layout-manager-for-jquery#comments I also think that if you’re going to say something “sucks”, you should explain why. It would help newcomers determine what product would be the ideal match for them based on other people’s opinions.
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@pharmx:
Just look at my previous comments in reply to Thomas on earlier posts for more depth to the arguments:
http://ajaxian.com/archives/jx-layout-manager-for-jquery#comments

]]> By: lovejs http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269351 lovejs Mon, 24 Nov 2008 01:48:14 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269351 pharmx: I mentioned why... Things that don't catch on after a more then decent amount of shameless "marketing" plugs generally suck. pharmx: I mentioned why… Things that don’t catch on after a more then decent amount of shameless “marketing” plugs generally suck.

]]> By: pharmx http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269350 pharmx Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:01:02 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269350 @lovejs: While I agree that self promoting on websites and forums as a form of marketing is not a good thing, it unfortunately seems to be prevalent in every field...video games, music, etc. Guerilla marketing is everywhere. However, I also think that if you're going to say something "sucks", you should explain why. It would help newcomers determine what product would be the ideal match for them based on other people's opinions. @lovejs: While I agree that self promoting on websites and forums as a form of marketing is not a good thing, it unfortunately seems to be prevalent in every field…video games, music, etc. Guerilla marketing is everywhere. However, I also think that if you’re going to say something “sucks”, you should explain why. It would help newcomers determine what product would be the ideal match for them based on other people’s opinions.

]]> By: lovejs http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269347 lovejs Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:36:27 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269347 ThomasHansen: Those shameless plugs of your home cooked rajax library are getting old. It's pretty obvious you plug it every time you get the chance. It would've catched on already if it didn't suck, ajaxian doesn't need spam on the menu, try something different. ThomasHansen: Those shameless plugs of your home cooked rajax library are getting old. It’s pretty obvious you plug it every time you get the chance. It would’ve catched on already if it didn’t suck, ajaxian doesn’t need spam on the menu, try something different.

]]> By: PeterCr http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269327 PeterCr Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:14:50 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269327 Joeri - Ext is GPL not LGPL - HUGE difference Joeri – Ext is GPL not LGPL – HUGE difference

]]> By: Rey Bango http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269320 Rey Bango Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:17:37 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269320 @excalo Thank you for catching that. Fixed. @excalo Thank you for catching that. Fixed.

]]> By: Joeri http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269319 Joeri Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:09:56 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269319 @viper2k: Please, personal attacks have nothing to do with the matter. (Btw, I wish I was an extjs insider, because I think it's a really cool project.) . I don't get why some people get so mad at the Ext guys for trying to earn a living from what they do. Ext is not comparable as a project to jquery, mootools or dojo because the way the development of those projects gets funded (and make no mistake, they all get funded somehow) does not seem to be feasible for Ext. I wish Ext was BSD as well, but I just don't think it's possible, and consider the LGPL dual license the best possible compromise. @viper2k: Please, personal attacks have nothing to do with the matter. (Btw, I wish I was an extjs insider, because I think it’s a really cool project.)
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I don’t get why some people get so mad at the Ext guys for trying to earn a living from what they do. Ext is not comparable as a project to jquery, mootools or dojo because the way the development of those projects gets funded (and make no mistake, they all get funded somehow) does not seem to be feasible for Ext. I wish Ext was BSD as well, but I just don’t think it’s possible, and consider the LGPL dual license the best possible compromise.

]]> By: viper2k http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269317 viper2k Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:31:28 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269317 Joeri - you seem to have a lot of "inside" Ext perspective, if you get my drift. First you say : "First they complained that the library wasn’t free enough, so the ext guys gave it the most radical of the Free licenses, the GPL, and now they complain yet again that it’s not free enough." Radical of the free licenses, huh? Have you heard of BSD or MIT? GPL is the most viral licenses. You then go on to say " "Ext doesn’t have the corporate sponsorship of YUI or the huge developer community of dojo to survive" Is this your sorry excuse to defend Ext? There are other libraries like Moo and JQuery with the most radical of free licenses without any weak excuse from an insider. Joeri – you seem to have a lot of “inside” Ext perspective, if you get my drift.

First you say :

“First they complained that the library wasn’t free enough, so the ext guys gave it the most radical of the Free licenses, the GPL, and now they complain yet again that it’s not free enough.”

Radical of the free licenses, huh? Have you heard of BSD or MIT? GPL is the most viral licenses.

You then go on to say ”
“Ext doesn’t have the corporate sponsorship of YUI or the huge developer community of dojo to survive”

Is this your sorry excuse to defend Ext? There are other libraries like Moo and JQuery with the most radical of free licenses without any weak excuse from an insider.

]]> By: Joeri http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269311 Joeri Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:37:57 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269311 @daanlib: If Ext was licensed under the LGPL, it would be straightforward to build closed projects on top of it without buying the library. Nobody would pay for it. Ext doesn't have the corporate sponsorship of YUI or the huge developer community of dojo to survive something like that. @daanlib: If Ext was licensed under the LGPL, it would be straightforward to build closed projects on top of it without buying the library. Nobody would pay for it. Ext doesn’t have the corporate sponsorship of YUI or the huge developer community of dojo to survive something like that.

]]> By: excalo http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269310 excalo Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:52:21 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269310 Typo in the first paragraph: <i>"...helping frameworks service <b>there</b> users in a sustainable manner."</i> Should be <i>"their"</i>. Typo in the first paragraph: “…helping frameworks service there users in a sustainable manner.” Should be “their”.

]]> By: daanlib http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269309 daanlib Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:42:58 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269309 @Joeri: I guess the problem is the choice for the GPL license, instead of the LGPL. This makes it impossible to use Ext in projects that aren't completely GPL licensed, as viper2k explaines above. For many people this is an obstacle. Personally I think Ext is great, and I am prepared to buy a commercial license, but using the GPL for a library prevents people from using it, because they have to publish their complete source, instead of only the changes/additions they make to the library. @Joeri: I guess the problem is the choice for the GPL license, instead of the LGPL. This makes it impossible to use Ext in projects that aren’t completely GPL licensed, as viper2k explaines above. For many people this is an obstacle.
Personally I think Ext is great, and I am prepared to buy a commercial license, but using the GPL for a library prevents people from using it, because they have to publish their complete source, instead of only the changes/additions they make to the library.

]]> By: ThomasHansen http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269308 ThomasHansen Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:34:20 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269308 @Joeri Good point ;) @TheWorld There's another option to CDNs you know, which is to use an insane small amount of JavaScript - like Ra-Ajax ( http://ra-ajax.org ) does - less then 20KB i total. And it'll mostly never grow to more than 10-15KB in your own apps... . In fact at our samples section our Google Analytics inclusion script is *more then half* the entire JavaScript on the pages... ;) @Joeri
Good point ;)
@TheWorld
There’s another option to CDNs you know, which is to use an insane small amount of JavaScript – like Ra-Ajax ( http://ra-ajax.org ) does – less then 20KB i total. And it’ll mostly never grow to more than 10-15KB in your own apps…
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In fact at our samples section our Google Analytics inclusion script is *more then half* the entire JavaScript on the pages… ;)

]]> By: Joeri http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269305 Joeri Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:05:17 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269305 I just don't get the Ext hate. First they complained that the library wasn't free enough, so the ext guys gave it the most radical of the Free licenses, the GPL, and now they complain yet again that it's not free enough. Seems to me the complainers just don't want any license in which the developers get paid for their work. . The whole situation sharply reminds me of the qt license debates. It is an exact replay of that story, and I'm on the side of the qt and ext guys on this one. I just don’t get the Ext hate. First they complained that the library wasn’t free enough, so the ext guys gave it the most radical of the Free licenses, the GPL, and now they complain yet again that it’s not free enough. Seems to me the complainers just don’t want any license in which the developers get paid for their work.
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The whole situation sharply reminds me of the qt license debates. It is an exact replay of that story, and I’m on the side of the qt and ext guys on this one.

]]> By: viper2k http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269302 viper2k Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:57:04 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269302 Here's what Jack aka self proclaimed legal expert says about this: http://extjs.com/forum/showthread.php?p=156236#post156236 "This is correct for any code that is, for example, just sending down JSON or XML. If you are generating any markup or javascript code via the server in a page SPECIFICALLY designed for Ext, then that server code will have to be GPL as well. For example: - Suppose you have an index.php that includes Ext JS. According to the FSF, in that case index.php would be also under GPL since it is using ext. Since it must be GPL, it's source must be distributed. Since it is GPL, the "viral" effect of GPL is now in effect and any thing that uses index.php (if anything) on the serverside would also fall under the GPL. (Note: Note this is a pretty gray area) - Suppose you are using server-side code to generate javascript that interacts with Ext JS. That code must also be GPL." Here’s what Jack aka self proclaimed legal expert says about this:
http://extjs.com/forum/showthread.php?p=156236#post156236

“This is correct for any code that is, for example, just sending down JSON or XML. If you are generating any markup or javascript code via the server in a page SPECIFICALLY designed for Ext, then that server code will have to be GPL as well.

For example:

- Suppose you have an index.php that includes Ext JS. According to the FSF, in that case index.php would be also under GPL since it is using ext. Since it must be GPL, it’s source must be distributed. Since it is GPL, the “viral” effect of GPL is now in effect and any thing that uses index.php (if anything) on the serverside would also fall under the GPL. (Note: Note this is a pretty gray area)

- Suppose you are using server-side code to generate javascript that interacts with Ext JS. That code must also be GPL.”

]]> By: daanlib http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269299 daanlib Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:18:11 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269299 @PeterCr: I know this is not the right place to ask, but do you have a link to some information about the consequences of Ext being GPL licensed? I tried finding out wether this means the server side part of a project that uses Ext-JS (not Ext GWT) should be GPL'led too if the software itself is not distributed, but is used by many people, but I can't find an answer to this question, neither on te Ext site nor on the GPL license sites. @PeterCr: I know this is not the right place to ask, but do you have a link to some information about the consequences of Ext being GPL licensed? I tried finding out wether this means the server side part of a project that uses Ext-JS (not Ext GWT) should be GPL’led too if the software itself is not distributed, but is used by many people, but I can’t find an answer to this question, neither on te Ext site nor on the GPL license sites.

]]> By: PeterCr http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269298 PeterCr Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:57:15 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269298 Looks like Google truned down hosting Ext due to licensing issues with Ext. http://extisevil.blogspot.com/2008/10/google-gives-ext-finger.html Looks like Google truned down hosting Ext due to licensing issues with Ext.

http://extisevil.blogspot.com/2008/10/google-gives-ext-finger.html

]]> By: alp http://ajaxian.com/archives/cdns-gaining-broader-use-with-javascript-libraries/comment-page-1#comment-269297 alp Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:43:51 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=5170#comment-269297 Rey, perhaps it's worth noting for the new reader that Dojo has been using CDNs for a couple of years now. Rey, perhaps it’s worth noting for the new reader that Dojo has been using CDNs for a couple of years now.

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