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	<title>Comments on: CSS Variables are &#8230;. here!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tribulus</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-267573</link>
		<dc:creator>Tribulus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-267573</guid>
		<description>That seems odd to me to make it more differcult</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That seems odd to me to make it more differcult</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cheba</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265741</link>
		<dc:creator>cheba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265741</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d prefere native SASS support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d prefere native SASS support.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: laurei</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265660</link>
		<dc:creator>laurei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265660</guid>
		<description>I think most people have missed the point about how effective this is immediately - because of the great need to change stylesheets dynamically, many developers are &lt;strong&gt;already&lt;/strong&gt; making their own css var notations  and then coming back and rendering them with javascript  (which unfortunately includes the overheads of abstraction - speed and script size) but this news is great because effective from NOW we can use the STANDARD notation in any browser in a forward compatible way just by parsing stylesheets js for legacy browsers.

Lets face it anyway, for anything perfectly flexible and scalable with xhtml/css, the whole design process will need to be wrapped in abstraction to iron out the bugs - and html/css will always be that way until browser renderings work all the same way - which is never because we will always have to support legacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think most people have missed the point about how effective this is immediately &#8211; because of the great need to change stylesheets dynamically, many developers are <strong>already</strong> making their own css var notations  and then coming back and rendering them with javascript  (which unfortunately includes the overheads of abstraction &#8211; speed and script size) but this news is great because effective from NOW we can use the STANDARD notation in any browser in a forward compatible way just by parsing stylesheets js for legacy browsers.</p>
<p>Lets face it anyway, for anything perfectly flexible and scalable with xhtml/css, the whole design process will need to be wrapped in abstraction to iron out the bugs &#8211; and html/css will always be that way until browser renderings work all the same way &#8211; which is never because we will always have to support legacy.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265646</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265646</guid>
		<description>@Amtiskaw Interesting and puzzling</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Amtiskaw Interesting and puzzling</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Amtiskaw</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265595</link>
		<dc:creator>Amtiskaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265595</guid>
		<description>They are not constants. The introduction of the CSS Variables spec  says: 

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;http://disruptive-innovations.com/zoo/cssvariables/&quot;&gt;
CSS Variables allow authors to define variables that are reusable as property values anywhere in a stylesheet &lt;strong&gt;and queryable/modifiable&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt; through an extension of the CSS Object Model described in this document.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are not constants. The introduction of the CSS Variables spec  says: </p>
<blockquote cite="http://disruptive-innovations.com/zoo/cssvariables/"><p>
CSS Variables allow authors to define variables that are reusable as property values anywhere in a stylesheet <strong>and queryable/modifiable</strong><strong> through an extension of the CSS Object Model described in this document.</strong></p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nosredna</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265588</link>
		<dc:creator>Nosredna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265588</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;Seems like Webkit is not in the position of being able to dictate not just which features appear, but how they are implemented.

Er, I meant &quot;now,&quot; not &quot;not.&quot; Wish I could edit my posts. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;Seems like Webkit is not in the position of being able to dictate not just which features appear, but how they are implemented.</p>
<p>Er, I meant &#8220;now,&#8221; not &#8220;not.&#8221; Wish I could edit my posts. :-)</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nosredna</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265587</link>
		<dc:creator>Nosredna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265587</guid>
		<description>You make a good point. If iPhone and AIR are targets for us, it may be worth targeting these new features in WebKit now, and Safari users will get a better experience than FF, Opera, and IE until they catch up.
.
Seems like Webkit is not in the position of being able to dictate not just which features appear, but how they are implemented.
.
IE8 is lame because it doesn&#039;t have native Canvas. Now all the other browsers are starting to look lame due to Webkit&#039;s CSS improvements.
.
Seems like a bit o a nightmare, though. We&#039;re in danger of having two significantly difference versions--Webkit and other.
.
And you have the age old problem of deciding whether to design for the lame ones and enhance, or design for the capable one and degrade.
.
Just when I thought we were getting down to a single version of code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make a good point. If iPhone and AIR are targets for us, it may be worth targeting these new features in WebKit now, and Safari users will get a better experience than FF, Opera, and IE until they catch up.<br />
.<br />
Seems like Webkit is not in the position of being able to dictate not just which features appear, but how they are implemented.<br />
.<br />
IE8 is lame because it doesn&#8217;t have native Canvas. Now all the other browsers are starting to look lame due to Webkit&#8217;s CSS improvements.<br />
.<br />
Seems like a bit o a nightmare, though. We&#8217;re in danger of having two significantly difference versions&#8211;Webkit and other.<br />
.<br />
And you have the age old problem of deciding whether to design for the lame ones and enhance, or design for the capable one and degrade.<br />
.<br />
Just when I thought we were getting down to a single version of code.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eyelidlessness</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265586</link>
		<dc:creator>eyelidlessness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265586</guid>
		<description>@Nosredna:
&quot;Not quite yet, though, if itâ€™s only in the nightlies.&quot;
.
Heh, I should choose my words more carefully. My point isn&#039;t that it&#039;s already available, but that it will be available sooner for Webkit-based apps than for IE.
.
&quot;How often, I wonder, will Adobe update the webkit in AIR?&quot;
.
So far as I&#039;ve seen, too little too late. They did just update it, but it&#039;s still far behind the Safari release.  But according to adoberob here: http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-air-v11-released-enhanced-support-for-internalization#comments &lt;blockquote&gt;I hear you. The next version of AIR will include a much newer version of WebKit.&lt;/blockquote&gt; Whatever that means and whenever that is! :)
.
&quot;For that matter, how does AIR deal with apps that require a newer engine? Do you get a â€œyour air is staleâ€ message?&quot;
.
That&#039;s a really good question. I imagine AIR has an update mechanism, but I have no idea how usable it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nosredna:<br />
&#8220;Not quite yet, though, if itâ€™s only in the nightlies.&#8221;<br />
.<br />
Heh, I should choose my words more carefully. My point isn&#8217;t that it&#8217;s already available, but that it will be available sooner for Webkit-based apps than for IE.<br />
.<br />
&#8220;How often, I wonder, will Adobe update the webkit in AIR?&#8221;<br />
.<br />
So far as I&#8217;ve seen, too little too late. They did just update it, but it&#8217;s still far behind the Safari release.  But according to adoberob here: <a href="http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-air-v11-released-enhanced-support-for-internalization#comments" rel="nofollow">http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-air-v11-released-enhanced-support-for-internalization#comments</a><br />
<blockquote>I hear you. The next version of AIR will include a much newer version of WebKit.</p></blockquote>
<p> Whatever that means and whenever that is! :)<br />
.<br />
&#8220;For that matter, how does AIR deal with apps that require a newer engine? Do you get a â€œyour air is staleâ€ message?&#8221;<br />
.<br />
That&#8217;s a really good question. I imagine AIR has an update mechanism, but I have no idea how usable it is.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nosredna</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265585</link>
		<dc:creator>Nosredna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265585</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;This is already useful for any application that will be Webkit-only (AIR, iPhone, Dashboard, anything with a Webkit view in OS X). 

Not quite yet, though, if it&#039;s only in the nightlies.

How often, I wonder, will Adobe update the webkit in AIR?

For that matter, how does AIR deal with apps that require a newer engine? Do you get a &quot;your air is stale&quot; message?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;This is already useful for any application that will be Webkit-only (AIR, iPhone, Dashboard, anything with a Webkit view in OS X). </p>
<p>Not quite yet, though, if it&#8217;s only in the nightlies.</p>
<p>How often, I wonder, will Adobe update the webkit in AIR?</p>
<p>For that matter, how does AIR deal with apps that require a newer engine? Do you get a &#8220;your air is stale&#8221; message?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265583</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265583</guid>
		<description>@broofa: i&#039;ve got no doubt they are necessary. I just said, they are constants, not variables ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@broofa: i&#8217;ve got no doubt they are necessary. I just said, they are constants, not variables ;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: broofa</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265581</link>
		<dc:creator>broofa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265581</guid>
		<description>@sirhc: Good point.  The var(...) notation allows developers to centralize values, but it doesn&#039;t allow them to create a centralized binding of properties and values.  The &quot;,&quot; notation allows us to apply styles to more than one selector at a time.  E.g.
&lt;code&gt;
#toolbar LI,
#sidebar LI {
  width:80px;
  margin:4px;
  font-size:12pt;
  font-weight:bold
}

#toolbar LI {
  background-color: red;
}
#sidebar LI {
  border: solid 1px red;
}
&lt;/code&gt;
But this means copy/pasting the selectors in multiple places, which makes these rules a bit brittle.   It&#039;d be nice to have an &quot;@templates&quot; directive or something like that to support this.  E.g.
&lt;code&gt;
@templates {
  buttonGeometry: {width:80px; margin:4px}
  buttonTypography: {font-size:12pt; font-weight:bold}
}
#toolbar LI {
  template: buttonGeometry, buttonTypography;
  background-color: red;
}
#sidebar LI {
  template: buttonGeometry, buttonTypography;
  border: solid 1px red;
}
&lt;/code&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sirhc: Good point.  The var(&#8230;) notation allows developers to centralize values, but it doesn&#8217;t allow them to create a centralized binding of properties and values.  The &#8220;,&#8221; notation allows us to apply styles to more than one selector at a time.  E.g.<br />
<code><br />
#toolbar LI,<br />
#sidebar LI {<br />
  width:80px;<br />
  margin:4px;<br />
  font-size:12pt;<br />
  font-weight:bold<br />
}</p>
<p>#toolbar LI {<br />
  background-color: red;<br />
}<br />
#sidebar LI {<br />
  border: solid 1px red;<br />
}<br />
</code><br />
But this means copy/pasting the selectors in multiple places, which makes these rules a bit brittle.   It&#8217;d be nice to have an &#8220;@templates&#8221; directive or something like that to support this.  E.g.<br />
<code><br />
@templates {<br />
  buttonGeometry: {width:80px; margin:4px}<br />
  buttonTypography: {font-size:12pt; font-weight:bold}<br />
}<br />
#toolbar LI {<br />
  template: buttonGeometry, buttonTypography;<br />
  background-color: red;<br />
}<br />
#sidebar LI {<br />
  template: buttonGeometry, buttonTypography;<br />
  border: solid 1px red;<br />
}<br />
</code></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joeri</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265580</link>
		<dc:creator>Joeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265580</guid>
		<description>@ashooner: You can define fallback values for legacy browsers. See the CSS variables spec. 

I still think it&#039;s wrong to call them variables instead of constants, unless browsers implement this by allowing the variables to be dynamically updated from javascript.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ashooner: You can define fallback values for legacy browsers. See the CSS variables spec. </p>
<p>I still think it&#8217;s wrong to call them variables instead of constants, unless browsers implement this by allowing the variables to be dynamically updated from javascript.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ashooner</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265578</link>
		<dc:creator>ashooner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265578</guid>
		<description>Seriously, how exactly would you &#039;progressively enhance&#039; using constants?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, how exactly would you &#8216;progressively enhance&#8217; using constants?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: broofa</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265577</link>
		<dc:creator>broofa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265577</guid>
		<description>Any word from the Firefox crew on when this might show up in that browser?

@gordon: yes, it&#039;s necessary. omfg, is it necessary!  Without this, developers and designers for a product must agree on a process for documenting design changes (colors, spacing, font sizes) and making sure they are applied to the appropriate stylesheets.  This is a non-trivial problem and the reality is that very few teams, if any, get it right.  Web sites are constantly having design bugs introduced because of this, _and_ as the CSS grows more complex it becomes correspondingly harder to maintain.

Allowing developers and designers to express the critical elements of a design as variables that can be updated in a single place is a *huge* win!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any word from the Firefox crew on when this might show up in that browser?</p>
<p>@gordon: yes, it&#8217;s necessary. omfg, is it necessary!  Without this, developers and designers for a product must agree on a process for documenting design changes (colors, spacing, font sizes) and making sure they are applied to the appropriate stylesheets.  This is a non-trivial problem and the reality is that very few teams, if any, get it right.  Web sites are constantly having design bugs introduced because of this, _and_ as the CSS grows more complex it becomes correspondingly harder to maintain.</p>
<p>Allowing developers and designers to express the critical elements of a design as variables that can be updated in a single place is a *huge* win!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sirhc</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265573</link>
		<dc:creator>sirhc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265573</guid>
		<description>Huh.. So they still haven&#039;t created something to group classes or assign classes to other classes or ids?
.someClass {...}
.anotherClass {...}
#someBox { class: someClass, anotherClass; }</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh.. So they still haven&#8217;t created something to group classes or assign classes to other classes or ids?<br />
.someClass {&#8230;}<br />
.anotherClass {&#8230;}<br />
#someBox { class: someClass, anotherClass; }</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eyelidlessness</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265571</link>
		<dc:creator>eyelidlessness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265571</guid>
		<description>@richtaur: Of course it&#039;s not necessary. Is any web technology necessary?
.
How will it complicate things to allow developers/designers to optionally choose to use variables at their discretion? How will doing so be more complicated than not doing so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@richtaur: Of course it&#8217;s not necessary. Is any web technology necessary?<br />
.<br />
How will it complicate things to allow developers/designers to optionally choose to use variables at their discretion? How will doing so be more complicated than not doing so?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: richtaur</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265568</link>
		<dc:creator>richtaur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 03:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265568</guid>
		<description>Ugh, is this really necessary? I just think it&#039;ll complicate things more than it&#039;s worth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh, is this really necessary? I just think it&#8217;ll complicate things more than it&#8217;s worth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265562</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265562</guid>
		<description>They are constants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are constants.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eyelidlessness</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265561</link>
		<dc:creator>eyelidlessness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265561</guid>
		<description>This is already useful for any application that will be Webkit-only (AIR, iPhone, Dashboard, anything with a Webkit view in OS X).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is already useful for any application that will be Webkit-only (AIR, iPhone, Dashboard, anything with a Webkit view in OS X).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SkaveRat</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here/comment-page-1#comment-265560</link>
		<dc:creator>SkaveRat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/css-variables-are-here#comment-265560</guid>
		<description>great... now you only need to wait 10 yeasr untill even IE has it...
and then... maybe then we can use them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great&#8230; now you only need to wait 10 yeasr untill even IE has it&#8230;<br />
and then&#8230; maybe then we can use them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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