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	<title>Comments on: document.getElementById(&#8220;check1&#8243;).indeterminate = true; Now shipping in Firefox Trunk</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ajaxian.com/archives/documentgetelementbyidcheck1indeterminate-true-now-shipping-in-firefox-trunk/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/documentgetelementbyidcheck1indeterminate-true-now-shipping-in-firefox-trunk</link>
	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
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		<title>By: RawChocolate</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/documentgetelementbyidcheck1indeterminate-true-now-shipping-in-firefox-trunk/comment-page-1#comment-274802</link>
		<dc:creator>RawChocolate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5897#comment-274802</guid>
		<description>I like it 
I like it 
I like it 
nice and simple</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like it<br />
I like it<br />
I like it<br />
nice and simple</p>
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		<title>By: drlongghost</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/documentgetelementbyidcheck1indeterminate-true-now-shipping-in-firefox-trunk/comment-page-1#comment-271195</link>
		<dc:creator>drlongghost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5897#comment-271195</guid>
		<description>IMO, the above blog post doesn&#039;t really do a good job of explaining what &quot;indeterminate&quot; actually means.  I had to google up this MSDN page to actually figure out what was being discussed:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms533894(VS.85).aspx

Now that I (think I) understand what&#039;s being discussed, I&#039;m pretty sure this is not a good idea.  A checkbox is either checked or unchecked.  Whether a user has actively interfaced with a form element doesn&#039;t really change this fact.  If you set meaningful defaults in your form, you should have no use for this.

In the &quot;Check All&quot; example, the &quot;indeterminate&quot; state is suggested as ideal for when the &quot;Check All&quot; is not checked but some of the &quot;child&quot; checkboxes are.  Since only some of the child boxes are checked, the &quot;Check All&quot; itself is KNOWN to be *unchecked* not indeterminate.   The current paradigm is well known and understood by current users and the only thing added by an indeterminate state is confusion.

Like many others I&#039;ve written javascript to handle the &quot;Check All&quot; control, in which a user manually checking all the children checkboxes automatically checks the &quot;Check All&quot; box as well.  Or, if you want to earn some bonus points with your boss, have the original state of the child checkboxes restored when &quot;Check All&quot; is checked then unchecked (eg, half of the boxes are checked, you click Check All then uncheck Check All and instead of none of them being checked, half of them are).  

Why not add this behavior to HTML5 so we don&#039;t need to code it by hand?  That would be far more helpful than tacking on bizarre features like &quot;indeterminate&quot;.

We should be working to simplify webforms to make them more accessible and easier to use, not adding complexity for its own sake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO, the above blog post doesn&#8217;t really do a good job of explaining what &#8220;indeterminate&#8221; actually means.  I had to google up this MSDN page to actually figure out what was being discussed:</p>
<p><a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms533894(VS.85)" rel="nofollow">http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms533894(VS.85)</a>.aspx</p>
<p>Now that I (think I) understand what&#8217;s being discussed, I&#8217;m pretty sure this is not a good idea.  A checkbox is either checked or unchecked.  Whether a user has actively interfaced with a form element doesn&#8217;t really change this fact.  If you set meaningful defaults in your form, you should have no use for this.</p>
<p>In the &#8220;Check All&#8221; example, the &#8220;indeterminate&#8221; state is suggested as ideal for when the &#8220;Check All&#8221; is not checked but some of the &#8220;child&#8221; checkboxes are.  Since only some of the child boxes are checked, the &#8220;Check All&#8221; itself is KNOWN to be *unchecked* not indeterminate.   The current paradigm is well known and understood by current users and the only thing added by an indeterminate state is confusion.</p>
<p>Like many others I&#8217;ve written javascript to handle the &#8220;Check All&#8221; control, in which a user manually checking all the children checkboxes automatically checks the &#8220;Check All&#8221; box as well.  Or, if you want to earn some bonus points with your boss, have the original state of the child checkboxes restored when &#8220;Check All&#8221; is checked then unchecked (eg, half of the boxes are checked, you click Check All then uncheck Check All and instead of none of them being checked, half of them are).  </p>
<p>Why not add this behavior to HTML5 so we don&#8217;t need to code it by hand?  That would be far more helpful than tacking on bizarre features like &#8220;indeterminate&#8221;.</p>
<p>We should be working to simplify webforms to make them more accessible and easier to use, not adding complexity for its own sake.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: howardrauscher</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/documentgetelementbyidcheck1indeterminate-true-now-shipping-in-firefox-trunk/comment-page-1#comment-271172</link>
		<dc:creator>howardrauscher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5897#comment-271172</guid>
		<description>I am would the CSS3 :indeterminate pseudoclass be a way to set the style of the checkbox and not set if a check should be in an indeterminate state ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am would the CSS3 :indeterminate pseudoclass be a way to set the style of the checkbox and not set if a check should be in an indeterminate state ?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jonathansnook</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/documentgetelementbyidcheck1indeterminate-true-now-shipping-in-firefox-trunk/comment-page-1#comment-271170</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathansnook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5897#comment-271170</guid>
		<description>@Jeori: tri-state boxes are fairly common way of declaring state information within a parent item. I would suspect that they&#039;re well understood now but would love to see some user testing on that. Like you say though, design may be a consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jeori: tri-state boxes are fairly common way of declaring state information within a parent item. I would suspect that they&#8217;re well understood now but would love to see some user testing on that. Like you say though, design may be a consideration.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Joeri</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/documentgetelementbyidcheck1indeterminate-true-now-shipping-in-firefox-trunk/comment-page-1#comment-271166</link>
		<dc:creator>Joeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 13:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5897#comment-271166</guid>
		<description>I detest three-state checkboxes. Needing them is a sure sign of a bad ui design.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I detest three-state checkboxes. Needing them is a sure sign of a bad ui design.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Aimos</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/documentgetelementbyidcheck1indeterminate-true-now-shipping-in-firefox-trunk/comment-page-1#comment-271165</link>
		<dc:creator>Aimos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 13:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5897#comment-271165</guid>
		<description>document.getElementById(&quot;check1?) 

are you sure? questionmark as end of a string?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>document.getElementById(&#8220;check1?) </p>
<p>are you sure? questionmark as end of a string?</p>
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