Thursday, March 29th, 2007

dojo.gfx presentations in dojo.gfx

Category: Canvas, Dojo

<>p>Dylan Schiemann has posted his presentations on dojo.gfx which are themselves written in dojo.gfx instead of Powerpoint/Keynote/S5.

It would be nice if you some key bindings were put into the presentations :)

Dylans Vector Graphics

Posted by Dion Almaer at 7:27 am
32 Comments

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2.7 rating from 69 votes

32 Comments »

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I get tons of errors. Its not ready for prime time.

Comment by notreadyforprimetime — March 29, 2007

So whats dojo weigh in at now. 5mb+??

Comment by jake — March 29, 2007

Is it common thing Dojo freezing both Firefox and IE while loading, or is it just my PC a piece of crap ??

Comment by Juca — March 29, 2007

Jake, Dojo has a lot of packages so if you dont want to have the complete library, you can download just the package that fits you.

Comment by Diego Carrion — March 29, 2007

I enjoy having to type.this.every.time.i.want.to.access.a.method.in.dojo. (namespace hell). Is that the forth level or fifth. 8P

Comment by Paul — March 29, 2007

@notreadyforprimetime: I never claimed it was ready for prime time, or optimized for performance. It was a forward looking talk, and certainly not optimized for performance (or for navigation for that matter). Take it for what it is, a demo that shows how gfx and html can be used together.

@jake: Dojo Core, part of 0.9 set to be out in June, will be comparable in size to jQuery and Prototype.

@juca: as mentioned above, this particular module is certainly not optimized for performance. It’s something I threw together pretty quickly to give a talk at a conference, demoing the technology I wanted to talk about.

Comment by Dylan Schiemann — March 29, 2007

@Paul: it’s called protecting the global namespace. There’s certainly nothing preventing anyone from creating aliases for the calls they use. And we certainly don’t make it difficult for common things, i.e. dojo.byId(), dojo.event.connect(), dojo.io,bind, dojo.html.show(), etc. If there’s a specific set of APIs that you think could be better in this regard, please let us know.

Comment by Dylan Schiemann — March 29, 2007

I look forward to anything dojo has to do with vector graphics. It will really create a lot of new ideas later on.

I know it’s a demo, but is it me or are most dojo enabled website slower compare to others with similar functionality?

Comment by Liming Xu — March 29, 2007

@Liming: whether that perception is true or not, with Dojo 0.9 (due in June) we’ll be making it more difficult to create slower apps ;)

Comment by Dylan Schiemann — March 29, 2007

What a turd. 57 seconds to load.

Comment by anon — March 29, 2007

@anon: 5.609s for me according to Fasterfox (across the network, not locally). I guess the experimental, non-optimized, tested in Firefox only warnings are insufficient?

Comment by Dylan Schiemann — March 29, 2007

Dylan, I was not saying your presentation, in specific, was freezing my browser. I was saying ANY application running dojo freezes my browsers while loading. I know your presentation is experimental and stuff.

I just want to know if this happen only with me or everybody have both FF and IE freezing at dojo loading time.

Comment by Juca — March 29, 2007

>> I guess the experimental, non-optimized, tested in Firefox only warnings are insufficient?

Comment by Sergey — March 29, 2007

David, it does not really matter if the page is fast on Firefox. Until you can show the version that works fast in IE6 (six), this is just a prototype with unknown scalability. I do hope that you folks will make it faster in 0.9, it’s a great prototype.

Comment by Sergey — March 29, 2007

@Sergey: most of dojo.gfx does work and work well with IE… I just didn’t have time to QA this on IE before giving my talk.

@Juca: as is the case with any web app, the more you try and do, the slower things go. There are many sites that use Dojo without slow load performance issues. That said, Dojo 0.9 is a major refactoring effort to address this very issue!

Comment by Dylan Schiemann — March 29, 2007

too little. too late.

Comment by Lance — March 29, 2007

@Lance: What are you referring to? gfx, dojo rewrite, something else? I’m not sure how responding to legitimate complaints and making things better is too little too late?

Comment by Dylan Schiemann — March 29, 2007

6 Seconds to load here, maybe you all need a real internet connection. Dylan, I think it looks and acts great, good work and don’t let the trolls get you down, I cant wait for the 0.9 release.

Comment by Charles — March 29, 2007

Dylan, which packages specifically are needed if I want to try out dojo.gfx?

Comment by Yansky — March 29, 2007

@Charles: thanks, I’m glad you like it!

@Yanksy: you should just be able to do a dojo.require(“dojo.gfx”); . I worked from trunk, but 0.4.2 should work as well. For the build of my slideshow, I included the following:

“dojo.debug.console”,
“dojo.widget.*”,
“dojo.event.*”,
“dojo.lfx”,
“dojo.gfx”,
“dojo.query”

Comment by Dylan Schiemann — March 29, 2007

Eugene Lazutkin (Dojo committer from Sun) posted these so-awesome-it-hurts demos to the Dojo list the other day:

http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/demos/gfx/tiger.html
http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/demos/gfx/lion.html
http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/demos/gfx/butterfly.html

They were created with a semi-automated transform from SVG. As usual, they’re dojo.gfx based so they don’t work on current Safari, but they do render on the webkit nightlies, Opera 9, IE 6/7, and FF 1.5+.

Comment by Alex Russell — March 29, 2007

Why would anyone go through the torture to do vector graphics in javascript? Flash is so much easier and faster. Jeez.

Comment by phil — March 29, 2007

I agree with phil that right now if you’re building a serious web app with vector graphics you need to be using flash. However, in time, native vector support in the browser is a must-have feature, so it’s nice to see people pulling the cart in the right direction with efforts like these.

Comment by Joeri — March 30, 2007

Very impressive!

Comment by Tapety — March 30, 2007

@Phil: for me, it’s a strong desire to be able to natively intermingle vector graphics with html. For someone like me, Flash is actually not easier, though I know I’m not the norm.

Comment by Dylan Schiemann — March 30, 2007

@Joeri: The same is eventually going to be said of in-browser 3D… but for now it’s great to use Media Machine’s Flux player.

Comment by Ryan Gahl — March 30, 2007

@Phil: I’d argue that Flash isn’t easier, only because you are (in general) tied to a timeline. For a designer, it’s not so bad but for a hard-core developer, to have to be dealing with timeline functionality to do anything when SO many other application development environments allow you to write pure event-driven interfaces is a bit ridiculous. Plus, there’s the whole “closed vs open” argument, which I’m not going to get into. Personally, I’ll use either–if the purpose of whatever I’m coding calls for it.
@Juca: that might be true if the app in question is based on the Dojo widget system; I can tell you that I’ve had no problem writing Dojo-based applications that didn’t do the freeze-on-load thing. We can abstract a lot of things but the reality is any tool used improperly is going to have teh suck(tm). Though I will say that it is our fault for making it easier to have teh suck(tm), and we’re working on it :)

Comment by Tom Trenka — March 30, 2007

Why the presentation creator didn’t choose to produce a build version before putting it on his website, baffles me. Unless if they are deliberately putting in an unbuilt app so that users are forced to download each file one by one and then curse Dojo for the perceived performance, in order to give Dojo a bad reputation. Guys, it’s not Dojo’s fault for the hanging on startup. It’s that the guy decided to put a development version of his app on his website. FYI, by default development versions of Dojo apps hang when loaded through the internet while build versions do not.

Comment by Jordan — March 30, 2007

@Jordan: actually that’s not really true either; it’s really only when you try to include a ton of resources right off the bat, from the same domain name, that you run across this problem. Yeah, Dylan probably should have made a build but then he probably wasn’t expecting to get “Ajaxian”-ed either. As I alluded to before, I’ve written full applications in Dojo that perform well even without a build–and though I probably have insights others don’t (being a major contributor) I can tell you for sure that the way I did it was pretty simple; I just didn’t front-load everything at once.

Comment by Tom Trenka — March 31, 2007

@Jordan: actually, I did create and use a built version of Doo (see comment above)… I chose to not build in the gfx widgets (there’s an outstanding bug). As a co-creator of Dojo, I hardly doubt I’d be trying to give it a bad rep. As stated in the original post, these were slides I used for a talk, and a few attendees asked if I’d put them online.

Comment by Dylan Schiemann — April 2, 2007

Dylan, FYI, all but the last presentation rendered find in WebKit. However, isn’t there a way to navigate from slide to slide? I tried various keyboard controls after not seeing any visual ones, but couldn’t find anything that worked.

Comment by Leland Scott — April 2, 2007

Dojo Core, part of 0.9 set to be out in June, will be comparable in size to jQuery and Prototype.
Yeah, Dylan probably should have made a build but then he probably wasn’t expecting to get “Ajaxian”-ed either. As I alluded to before, I’ve written full applications in Dojo that perform well even without a build–and though I probably have insights others don’t.

so impressive!

Comment by wow power leveling — June 11, 2007

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