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	<title>Comments on: ECMA What? Harmony Who? TC39? Tamarin? JavaScript!</title>
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	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
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		<title>By: genericallyloud</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266810</link>
		<dc:creator>genericallyloud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=4124#comment-266810</guid>
		<description>@slightlyoff: I was referring to two things in the article:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Based loosely on Adobe’s ActionScript 3.&lt;/blockquote&gt; and &lt;blockquote&gt;This was the starting point for much of the work which became known as ES4.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;ve had trouble tracking down specific dates, but what I&#039;m saying is that I believe ES4 was started first. Features from early drafts of ES4 were put into AS3 hoping that it could stay compatible. The article is saying that AS3 was created independently and then ES4 used it as a starting point which I think is misleading.

That said, Adobe has been a major contributor to the ES4 spec, so I imagine that many of the same people worked on both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@slightlyoff: I was referring to two things in the article:</p>
<blockquote><p>Based loosely on Adobe’s ActionScript 3.</p></blockquote>
<p> and<br />
<blockquote>This was the starting point for much of the work which became known as ES4.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve had trouble tracking down specific dates, but what I&#8217;m saying is that I believe ES4 was started first. Features from early drafts of ES4 were put into AS3 hoping that it could stay compatible. The article is saying that AS3 was created independently and then ES4 used it as a starting point which I think is misleading.</p>
<p>That said, Adobe has been a major contributor to the ES4 spec, so I imagine that many of the same people worked on both.</p>
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		<title>By: Breton</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266794</link>
		<dc:creator>Breton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=4124#comment-266794</guid>
		<description>@slightlyoff: you mispelled my name (why? it&#039;s not that hard, and it&#039;s written out for you on the screen), and failed to address my point. Unless you can point me at a definition for what amounts to a &quot;new language&quot; that is generally agreed with by most experts on the subject, then what you are expressing is an opinion.

 I should think that this is somewhat inappropriate for a piece that is selling itself as some kind of authoritative source for definitions. It didn&#039;t seem quite funny enough to be obviously a humour peice (which would excuse the use of personal opinion) But I don&#039;t know, I might be missing something. It seems quite dubious to intentionally mislead confused people like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@slightlyoff: you mispelled my name (why? it&#8217;s not that hard, and it&#8217;s written out for you on the screen), and failed to address my point. Unless you can point me at a definition for what amounts to a &#8220;new language&#8221; that is generally agreed with by most experts on the subject, then what you are expressing is an opinion.</p>
<p> I should think that this is somewhat inappropriate for a piece that is selling itself as some kind of authoritative source for definitions. It didn&#8217;t seem quite funny enough to be obviously a humour peice (which would excuse the use of personal opinion) But I don&#8217;t know, I might be missing something. It seems quite dubious to intentionally mislead confused people like this.</p>
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		<title>By: slightlyoff</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266790</link>
		<dc:creator>slightlyoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=4124#comment-266790</guid>
		<description>Brenton:

The difference between ES4 and ES3 would have been similar in scope to the difference between PHP4 and PHP6 and perhaps also between Perl5 and Perl6. They all represent entirely new ways of handling complexity (classes with real semantics and syntax) but keep much of the flavor of their predacessors.

Insofar as ES4 introduced *both* classes and types to the language as well as packages and namespaces, it was a huge set of potential changes. I don&#039;t think anyone who would call it a &quot;new language&quot; was being prone to hyperbole. It really was a gigantic set of changes.

Harmony *might still* be a gigantic set of changes, and it may also wind up being a &quot;new language&quot; in the same sense. What&#039;s settled now, though, is that it won&#039;t introduce packages or namespaces and that much of the class and type semantics, structure, and construction are up for a re-think. Insofar as those were the bits that would have defined ES4, it&#039;s a big change.

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brenton:</p>
<p>The difference between ES4 and ES3 would have been similar in scope to the difference between PHP4 and PHP6 and perhaps also between Perl5 and Perl6. They all represent entirely new ways of handling complexity (classes with real semantics and syntax) but keep much of the flavor of their predacessors.</p>
<p>Insofar as ES4 introduced *both* classes and types to the language as well as packages and namespaces, it was a huge set of potential changes. I don&#8217;t think anyone who would call it a &#8220;new language&#8221; was being prone to hyperbole. It really was a gigantic set of changes.</p>
<p>Harmony *might still* be a gigantic set of changes, and it may also wind up being a &#8220;new language&#8221; in the same sense. What&#8217;s settled now, though, is that it won&#8217;t introduce packages or namespaces and that much of the class and type semantics, structure, and construction are up for a re-think. Insofar as those were the bits that would have defined ES4, it&#8217;s a big change.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
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		<title>By: Breton</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266789</link>
		<dc:creator>Breton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=4124#comment-266789</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a matter of opinion whether &quot;Ecmascript 4&quot; was a &quot;new language&quot; that was merely backward compatible. You could just as easily say that jscript in IE is a different language from the javascript in firefox. Is php5 a different language from PHP 4? Perl 6 a different language from Perl 5? Or are they different versions of the same language? Where exactly do you draw the line? It seems to me that calling ecmascript 4 a new language was some kind of political style spin meant to make it sound scary and bad. 

It seems to have worked to such a frightening extent that they were forced to change the name of Ecmascript 4 to Ecmascript Harmony, just to shake off the bad vibes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a matter of opinion whether &#8220;Ecmascript 4&#8243; was a &#8220;new language&#8221; that was merely backward compatible. You could just as easily say that jscript in IE is a different language from the javascript in firefox. Is php5 a different language from PHP 4? Perl 6 a different language from Perl 5? Or are they different versions of the same language? Where exactly do you draw the line? It seems to me that calling ecmascript 4 a new language was some kind of political style spin meant to make it sound scary and bad. </p>
<p>It seems to have worked to such a frightening extent that they were forced to change the name of Ecmascript 4 to Ecmascript Harmony, just to shake off the bad vibes.</p>
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		<title>By: slightlyoff</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266779</link>
		<dc:creator>slightlyoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=4124#comment-266779</guid>
		<description>generically:

the paragraph in question is:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
ActionScript 3.0 is compliant with the ECMAScript Language Specification, Third Edition (ECMA-262). It also contains functionality based on ongoing work on ECMAScript Edition 4, occurring within the ECMA standards body.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Much of this is true. AS3 is *nearly* compliant with ES3 (aka: ECMAScript 262-3), however it has no support for dynamic code loading or for eval(). This leaves it able to start up somewhat faster but means that it&#039;s not really the dynamic language that JS hackers know and love. The relationship between ES4 and AS3 is very direct by I think the timeline which is implied there is in some doubt. Adobe contributed much of the work that had gone into AS3 for consideration by the ES4 working group, and much was (up until last week) on target to be accepted. I don&#039;t work for Adobe and don&#039;t know whether the chicken or the egg came first. Regardless, Adobe had been tracking the standards process with their language and I hope that commitment continues as the shape of Harmony becomes clearer.

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>generically:</p>
<p>the paragraph in question is:</p>
<blockquote><p>
ActionScript 3.0 is compliant with the ECMAScript Language Specification, Third Edition (ECMA-262). It also contains functionality based on ongoing work on ECMAScript Edition 4, occurring within the ECMA standards body.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Much of this is true. AS3 is *nearly* compliant with ES3 (aka: ECMAScript 262-3), however it has no support for dynamic code loading or for eval(). This leaves it able to start up somewhat faster but means that it&#8217;s not really the dynamic language that JS hackers know and love. The relationship between ES4 and AS3 is very direct by I think the timeline which is implied there is in some doubt. Adobe contributed much of the work that had gone into AS3 for consideration by the ES4 working group, and much was (up until last week) on target to be accepted. I don&#8217;t work for Adobe and don&#8217;t know whether the chicken or the egg came first. Regardless, Adobe had been tracking the standards process with their language and I hope that commitment continues as the shape of Harmony becomes clearer.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: genericallyloud</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266774</link>
		<dc:creator>genericallyloud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=4124#comment-266774</guid>
		<description>Correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but Actionscript 3 was based on early drafts of Ecmascript 4, not the other way around. 

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/actionscript/articles/actionscript3_overview.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but Actionscript 3 was based on early drafts of Ecmascript 4, not the other way around. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.adobe.com/devnet/actionscript/articles/actionscript3_overview.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.adobe.com/devnet/actionscript/articles/actionscript3_overview.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: JohnResig</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266772</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnResig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=4124#comment-266772</guid>
		<description>@shadedecho: That&#039;s incorrect. What Alex has written up is the current state of affairs - ECMAScript 3.1 is logically distinct from ECMAScript Harmony (a number of news sources have gotten this point wrong, as well).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@shadedecho: That&#8217;s incorrect. What Alex has written up is the current state of affairs &#8211; ECMAScript 3.1 is logically distinct from ECMAScript Harmony (a number of news sources have gotten this point wrong, as well).</p>
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		<title>By: andytesti</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266771</link>
		<dc:creator>andytesti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@JohnDelHope3: Firstly we should replace AJAX by AEAX and Ajaxian by Aeaxian :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JohnDelHope3: Firstly we should replace AJAX by AEAX and Ajaxian by Aeaxian :P</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JohnDeHope3</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266770</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnDeHope3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We should start a campaign to remove the word &#039;javascript&#039; from the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We should start a campaign to remove the word &#8216;javascript&#8217; from the world.</p>
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		<title>By: shadedecho</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266769</link>
		<dc:creator>shadedecho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=4124#comment-266769</guid>
		<description>errr... &#039;successor&#039; i meant... doh, it&#039;s too early for me!  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>errr&#8230; &#8216;successor&#8217; i meant&#8230; doh, it&#8217;s too early for me!  :)</p>
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		<title>By: shadedecho</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ecma-what-harmony-who-tc39-tamarin-javascript/comment-page-1#comment-266768</link>
		<dc:creator>shadedecho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=4124#comment-266768</guid>
		<description>I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that &quot;Harmony&quot; was a code name referring to 3.1 (since they achieved harmony with it), not strictly to its some-day predecessor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that &#8220;Harmony&#8221; was a code name referring to 3.1 (since they achieved harmony with it), not strictly to its some-day predecessor.</p>
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