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	<title>Comments on: Ext Designer Preview tool, to go with Ext 3.0</title>
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	<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30</link>
	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
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		<title>By: NilsFredrik</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-285503</link>
		<dc:creator>NilsFredrik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Dec 2010 19:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-285503</guid>
		<description>There is a tutorial: Ext Designer for developers at http://aboutfrontend.com/2010/07/ext-designer-tutorial-for-a-developer/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a tutorial: Ext Designer for developers at <a href="http://aboutfrontend.com/2010/07/ext-designer-tutorial-for-a-developer/" rel="nofollow">http://aboutfrontend.com/2010/07/ext-designer-tutorial-for-a-developer/</a></p>
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		<title>By: SpotDog</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275371</link>
		<dc:creator>SpotDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275371</guid>
		<description>&quot;ExtJS doesn’t really need a designer, because editing the config objects by themselves in a text editor is simple enough.&quot;

I totally disagree. It is very simple making a JSON object yes. But designing interfaces this way is very time consuming, if you really care about the result. 

There is also the general principle that designing a visual interface visually is a more immediate and logical approach, you can see the results immediately.

Sorry but the reason I don&#039;t use ExtJS is because of the torturous time I had crafting the interface in JSON, compared to a traditional HTML/CSS interface, or to creating Desktop applications.

From my experience a tool like this is definetely needed for serious GUI work of this kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;ExtJS doesn’t really need a designer, because editing the config objects by themselves in a text editor is simple enough.&#8221;</p>
<p>I totally disagree. It is very simple making a JSON object yes. But designing interfaces this way is very time consuming, if you really care about the result. </p>
<p>There is also the general principle that designing a visual interface visually is a more immediate and logical approach, you can see the results immediately.</p>
<p>Sorry but the reason I don&#8217;t use ExtJS is because of the torturous time I had crafting the interface in JSON, compared to a traditional HTML/CSS interface, or to creating Desktop applications.</p>
<p>From my experience a tool like this is definetely needed for serious GUI work of this kind.</p>
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		<title>By: webvida</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275134</link>
		<dc:creator>webvida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275134</guid>
		<description>“If you take the amount of time you spent whining here and multiply it by your hourly rate, you could have just gotten a license.”

    Awesome quote - so incredibly true.
-----

Yeah works both ways, If the Ext team stopped trawling the web whining about people whining about their license we would probably have Ext.4 by now mmmmwwwwwhahahahahahahahaha

&quot;However, since the FSF chose to make a separate license (the AGPL) just to clarify this point, this indicates that they do not consider the GPL to require the open sourcing of modifications to the server end of a web application (the FSF also had the opportunity to build the AGPL into GPL 3 and declined to do so, deciding instead to keep it as a separate license). Since they created these licenses and are regarded as the authority on them, their interpretation would be the one to follow regardless of the beliefs of Jack et. al.(It is likely the ExtJS interpretation is technically incorrect).&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“If you take the amount of time you spent whining here and multiply it by your hourly rate, you could have just gotten a license.”</p>
<p>    Awesome quote &#8211; so incredibly true.<br />
&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Yeah works both ways, If the Ext team stopped trawling the web whining about people whining about their license we would probably have Ext.4 by now mmmmwwwwwhahahahahahahahaha</p>
<p>&#8220;However, since the FSF chose to make a separate license (the AGPL) just to clarify this point, this indicates that they do not consider the GPL to require the open sourcing of modifications to the server end of a web application (the FSF also had the opportunity to build the AGPL into GPL 3 and declined to do so, deciding instead to keep it as a separate license). Since they created these licenses and are regarded as the authority on them, their interpretation would be the one to follow regardless of the beliefs of Jack et. al.(It is likely the ExtJS interpretation is technically incorrect).&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: VinylFox</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275104</link>
		<dc:creator>VinylFox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275104</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you take the amount of time you spent whining here and multiply it by your hourly rate, you could have just gotten a license.&quot;

Awesome quote - so incredibly true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you take the amount of time you spent whining here and multiply it by your hourly rate, you could have just gotten a license.&#8221;</p>
<p>Awesome quote &#8211; so incredibly true.</p>
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		<title>By: Les</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275062</link>
		<dc:creator>Les</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275062</guid>
		<description>jackslocum,

Why Ext is not listed in TaskSpeed comparison?

http://dante.dojotoolkit.org/taskspeed/

I&#039;d like to know how it stacks up against the competition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jackslocum,</p>
<p>Why Ext is not listed in TaskSpeed comparison?</p>
<p><a href="http://dante.dojotoolkit.org/taskspeed/" rel="nofollow">http://dante.dojotoolkit.org/taskspeed/</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to know how it stacks up against the competition.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jackslocum</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275052</link>
		<dc:creator>jackslocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275052</guid>
		<description>Why must every post contain the same old discussions about licensing? Just enjoy a nice write up about a new version of Ext and a preview of the designer tool or skip the article and read something else. 

If you take the amount of time you spent whining here and multiply it by your hourly rate, you could have just gotten a license.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why must every post contain the same old discussions about licensing? Just enjoy a nice write up about a new version of Ext and a preview of the designer tool or skip the article and read something else. </p>
<p>If you take the amount of time you spent whining here and multiply it by your hourly rate, you could have just gotten a license.</p>
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		<title>By: coryn1</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275042</link>
		<dc:creator>coryn1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275042</guid>
		<description>@ocalawebdesign: Never mind open source, it wasn&#039;t that long ago you weren&#039;t even allowed to *speak* about developing for the iPhone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ocalawebdesign: Never mind open source, it wasn&#8217;t that long ago you weren&#8217;t even allowed to *speak* about developing for the iPhone.</p>
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		<title>By: ajaxery</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275041</link>
		<dc:creator>ajaxery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275041</guid>
		<description>@ocalawebdesign:

you mean that community of developers that constantly get the shaft from apple, for no real reason. the developers that have been jumping ship for more open platforms. those guys?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ocalawebdesign:</p>
<p>you mean that community of developers that constantly get the shaft from apple, for no real reason. the developers that have been jumping ship for more open platforms. those guys?</p>
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		<title>By: Joeri</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275031</link>
		<dc:creator>Joeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275031</guid>
		<description>@ocalawebdesign:
What is open source about developing for the iphone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ocalawebdesign:<br />
What is open source about developing for the iphone?</p>
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		<title>By: coryn1</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275025</link>
		<dc:creator>coryn1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275025</guid>
		<description>@tercero12 - Just a clarification on the Affero license. You are correct, it was created to clear up confusion with the GPL&#039;s concept of distribution but not in the way that you say. You say that it &quot;allows for web servers to run software without it being considered distribution as the GPL 3 hints (and therefore requiring source code distribution).&quot; -this is incorrect; actually the opposite is true. With the AGPL you are *required* to open source modifications made to the server end of a web application as it is considered distribution. 

I recall when the ExtJS gang spoke about the licensing change and they said it was unclear and they were choosing to interpret the GPL as you suggest. However, since the FSF chose to make a separate license (the AGPL) just to clarify this point, this indicates that they do not consider the GPL to require the open sourcing of modifications to the server end of a web application (the FSF also had the opportunity to build the AGPL into GPL 3 and declined to do so, deciding instead to keep it as a separate license). Since they created these licenses and are regarded as the authority on them, their interpretation would be the one to follow regardless of the beliefs of Jack et. al.(It is likely  the ExtJS interpretation is technically incorrect).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tercero12 &#8211; Just a clarification on the Affero license. You are correct, it was created to clear up confusion with the GPL&#8217;s concept of distribution but not in the way that you say. You say that it &#8220;allows for web servers to run software without it being considered distribution as the GPL 3 hints (and therefore requiring source code distribution).&#8221; -this is incorrect; actually the opposite is true. With the AGPL you are *required* to open source modifications made to the server end of a web application as it is considered distribution. </p>
<p>I recall when the ExtJS gang spoke about the licensing change and they said it was unclear and they were choosing to interpret the GPL as you suggest. However, since the FSF chose to make a separate license (the AGPL) just to clarify this point, this indicates that they do not consider the GPL to require the open sourcing of modifications to the server end of a web application (the FSF also had the opportunity to build the AGPL into GPL 3 and declined to do so, deciding instead to keep it as a separate license). Since they created these licenses and are regarded as the authority on them, their interpretation would be the one to follow regardless of the beliefs of Jack et. al.(It is likely  the ExtJS interpretation is technically incorrect).</p>
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		<title>By: mdmadph</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275023</link>
		<dc:creator>mdmadph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275023</guid>
		<description>Hey, charge all you want, as long as you release a free version as well (sans support and updates, of course).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, charge all you want, as long as you release a free version as well (sans support and updates, of course).</p>
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		<title>By: WillPeavy</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275021</link>
		<dc:creator>WillPeavy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275021</guid>
		<description>@jhuni - I agree that CHARING people is a bad idea ( see: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/char#Verb_2 ). 

Charging people, I&#039;m ok with though. Software developers need to eat too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jhuni &#8211; I agree that CHARING people is a bad idea ( see: <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/char#Verb_2" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/char#Verb_2</a> ). </p>
<p>Charging people, I&#8217;m ok with though. Software developers need to eat too.</p>
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		<title>By: ExtAnimal</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275017</link>
		<dc:creator>ExtAnimal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275017</guid>
		<description>like, property is theft man!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>like, property is theft man!</p>
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		<title>By: mystix</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275016</link>
		<dc:creator>mystix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275016</guid>
		<description>&quot;Char(g)ing people is a bad idea&quot;

let&#039;s live on fresh air and grass!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Char(g)ing people is a bad idea&#8221;</p>
<p>let&#8217;s live on fresh air and grass!</p>
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		<title>By: jhuni</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275015</link>
		<dc:creator>jhuni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275015</guid>
		<description>Charing people is a bad idea. Proprietary software is a horrible idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charing people is a bad idea. Proprietary software is a horrible idea.</p>
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		<title>By: linb</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275014</link>
		<dc:creator>linb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275014</guid>
		<description>I like that kind of UI Designer like VB/Delphi : http://www.linb.net/VisualJS/UIBuilder.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that kind of UI Designer like VB/Delphi : <a href="http://www.linb.net/VisualJS/UIBuilder.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.linb.net/VisualJS/UIBuilder.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: TommyMaintz</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275013</link>
		<dc:creator>TommyMaintz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275013</guid>
		<description>@phpeter

We should probably be more clear on this subject. It is NOT our intention to charge for every code generation cycle. For a Designer &quot;Pro&quot; license you would pay a monthly, quarterly or yearly fee and this would give you an unlimited amount of code generations and other more advanced features not available for users without a license.
We regret the way we formulated that sentence in our blogpost, but we don&#039;t want to change it now. Instead we will post a blogpost in a further stage of development with more details about the pricing and advanced features that will be available in the &quot;Pro&quot; version of the Designer.

Just to repeat and be clear about this: We won&#039;t charge for each code generation, instead we will release the Designer Pro under a SaaS model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@phpeter</p>
<p>We should probably be more clear on this subject. It is NOT our intention to charge for every code generation cycle. For a Designer &#8220;Pro&#8221; license you would pay a monthly, quarterly or yearly fee and this would give you an unlimited amount of code generations and other more advanced features not available for users without a license.<br />
We regret the way we formulated that sentence in our blogpost, but we don&#8217;t want to change it now. Instead we will post a blogpost in a further stage of development with more details about the pricing and advanced features that will be available in the &#8220;Pro&#8221; version of the Designer.</p>
<p>Just to repeat and be clear about this: We won&#8217;t charge for each code generation, instead we will release the Designer Pro under a SaaS model.</p>
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		<title>By: omegamale</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275012</link>
		<dc:creator>omegamale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275012</guid>
		<description>@tercero12: It&#039;s probably an issue lawyers have to clarify. Nevertheless I would argue that the GPL is &quot;not that viral&quot;. If I deliver my product with a SmartClient-client for the browser and my customer decides to have a third party write an Ext-client, this obviously does not render my original license invalid. Why should it do so if I do the same thing for a customer? The GPL is indifferent to the supplier of the code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tercero12: It&#8217;s probably an issue lawyers have to clarify. Nevertheless I would argue that the GPL is &#8220;not that viral&#8221;. If I deliver my product with a SmartClient-client for the browser and my customer decides to have a third party write an Ext-client, this obviously does not render my original license invalid. Why should it do so if I do the same thing for a customer? The GPL is indifferent to the supplier of the code.</p>
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		<title>By: phpeter</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275011</link>
		<dc:creator>phpeter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275011</guid>
		<description>@TommyMainz
I would pay for a &quot;pro&quot; version of a good tool, that I can use unlimited and that is worth the money, like I bought a commercial ext license. As far as I have understood the anouncement in the ext blog, you can play around with the tool, but if you want to see the generated code, you would have to use a webservice and pay each time you change something and want to see the result. Maybe the anouncement is unclear and I understood it wrong. But if I consider to use an IDE, any license model that is &quot;pay per use&quot; and any functionality that is only accessible via network and not locally makes the IDE uninteresting for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TommyMainz<br />
I would pay for a &#8220;pro&#8221; version of a good tool, that I can use unlimited and that is worth the money, like I bought a commercial ext license. As far as I have understood the anouncement in the ext blog, you can play around with the tool, but if you want to see the generated code, you would have to use a webservice and pay each time you change something and want to see the result. Maybe the anouncement is unclear and I understood it wrong. But if I consider to use an IDE, any license model that is &#8220;pay per use&#8221; and any functionality that is only accessible via network and not locally makes the IDE uninteresting for me.</p>
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		<title>By: tercero12</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30/comment-page-1#comment-275010</link>
		<dc:creator>tercero12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7226#comment-275010</guid>
		<description>@omegamale: You are wrong...sort of.  This point is unclear in GPL 3.  However, the ExtJS guys adopted GPL 3 with the understanding that the server-side code and the Javascript it serves as the same piece of software and hence the GPL virally applies to the server-side software if you use ExtJS.  The ExtJS guys explained this once in the forums and now they ignore any discussion of it since they have already explained it.  This is why most JS libraries are BSD/MIT licensed...to encourage wide use.

As an aside, SmartClient uses LGPL, which you can use commercially without releasing your server-side code.

The Affero license (while unrelated to ExtJS), is a GPL 3-like license that was created to clarify the confusion and allow for web servers to run software without it being considered distribution as the GPL 3 hints (and therefore requiring source code distribution).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@omegamale: You are wrong&#8230;sort of.  This point is unclear in GPL 3.  However, the ExtJS guys adopted GPL 3 with the understanding that the server-side code and the Javascript it serves as the same piece of software and hence the GPL virally applies to the server-side software if you use ExtJS.  The ExtJS guys explained this once in the forums and now they ignore any discussion of it since they have already explained it.  This is why most JS libraries are BSD/MIT licensed&#8230;to encourage wide use.</p>
<p>As an aside, SmartClient uses LGPL, which you can use commercially without releasing your server-side code.</p>
<p>The Affero license (while unrelated to ExtJS), is a GPL 3-like license that was created to clarify the confusion and allow for web servers to run software without it being considered distribution as the GPL 3 hints (and therefore requiring source code distribution).</p>
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