Comments on: Ext JS and the fun with Open Source licenses http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses Cleaning up the web with Ajax Thu, 17 May 2012 07:43:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Noah http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263243 Noah Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:46:57 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263243 I just posted a commentary about Jack's post as well: http://noahk17.blogspot.com/2008/04/my-extjs-drama.html I just posted a commentary about Jack’s post as well: http://noahk17.blogspot.com/2008/04/my-extjs-drama.html

]]> By: graemerocher http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263184 graemerocher Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:34:24 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263184 Although I sympathise with Jack's situation the fact is you cannot have your cake and eat it. Jack has been able to expose Ext-JS to a huge amount of publicity that Ext-JS would not have got had it been licensed under a restrictive license like GPL The result is he has used the community driven nature of open source software and obtained a large number of users as a result and now turned around and slapped those same users in the face. You are either open or you are not, you cannot have it both ways. Although I sympathise with Jack’s situation the fact is you cannot have your cake and eat it.

Jack has been able to expose Ext-JS to a huge amount of publicity that Ext-JS would not have got had it been licensed under a restrictive license like GPL

The result is he has used the community driven nature of open source software and obtained a large number of users as a result and now turned around and slapped those same users in the face.

You are either open or you are not, you cannot have it both ways.

]]> By: slightlyoff http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263178 slightlyoff Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:47:50 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263178 Sean: How is it impractical? We've been managing to build a vibrant community of highly professional contributors for Dojo for years now. Many of us have gotten employment *because* of that work and the character of the community has remained in-tact. No license changes, no usage fees. Everyone has a right to charge whatever they choose for their work, but I don't think you can extrapolate from one example to suggest that projects *must* charge usage fees to continue to produce high-quality work...unless you're also arguing that there's something fundamentally different about your chosen example. Otherwise, YUI, Dojo, TIBCO/GI, JQuery, Prototype and many others provide plenty of proof that you don't need to charge, and that's just in the JavaScript space. Taking a look at the larger world of Open Source makes the point even more plain. Regards Sean:

How is it impractical? We’ve been managing to build a vibrant community of highly professional contributors for Dojo for years now. Many of us have gotten employment *because* of that work and the character of the community has remained in-tact. No license changes, no usage fees.

Everyone has a right to charge whatever they choose for their work, but I don’t think you can extrapolate from one example to suggest that projects *must* charge usage fees to continue to produce high-quality work…unless you’re also arguing that there’s something fundamentally different about your chosen example. Otherwise, YUI, Dojo, TIBCO/GI, JQuery, Prototype and many others provide plenty of proof that you don’t need to charge, and that’s just in the JavaScript space. Taking a look at the larger world of Open Source makes the point even more plain.

Regards

]]> By: Sean Foushee http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263177 Sean Foushee Sun, 27 Apr 2008 01:51:45 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263177 A more commercial license is not only fair but well within the rights of Jack and Co. to demand. While I love the open source community, without it I would never have learned most of what I know now, its quite impractical for major developers and software engineers to continue to create these terrific products and frameworks without expecting major commercial projects to compensate them for their use of the framework. A more commercial license is not only fair but well within the rights of Jack and Co. to demand. While I love the open source community, without it I would never have learned most of what I know now, its quite impractical for major developers and software engineers to continue to create these terrific products and frameworks without expecting major commercial projects to compensate them for their use of the framework.

]]> By: Kyriakos http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263176 Kyriakos Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:51:32 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263176 I dont mind the license change. The actual cost to buy the commercial license is low for the quality of the library. I'm building a CMS on my spare time and a lot of it is based on ExtJS, even though for the time being i have no profit out of it i would gladly pay the commercial license fee once i'm going commercial with my software. If i'm getting money out of something i think its only fair to pay for every piece of code i used that's licensed to someone else. I dont mind the license change. The actual cost to buy the commercial license is low for the quality of the library. I’m building a CMS on my spare time and a lot of it is based on ExtJS, even though for the time being i have no profit out of it i would gladly pay the commercial license fee once i’m going commercial with my software. If i’m getting money out of something i think its only fair to pay for every piece of code i used that’s licensed to someone else.

]]> By: polterguy http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263175 polterguy Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:49:52 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263175 Sorry, I can't help myself on this... If we should "help grow the open web" why do you write so much about Flex and even have ADDS for it...? Do you (Dion) consider Adobe Flex for being a member of the "Open Web"? Sorry, I can’t help myself on this…
If we should “help grow the open web” why do you write so much about Flex and even have ADDS for it…?
Do you (Dion) consider Adobe Flex for being a member of the “Open Web”?

]]> By: Trevor http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263174 Trevor Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:35:27 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263174 "I am sure these debates have taken way too much time and energy." This is ridiculous. Being a social creature means being responsible to those you affect. People aren't entitled to his work, but they certainly are entitled to question his actions and to express how they're negatively impacted by the change. While the new license fits proprietary and GPL work, it has stunted an upgrade path for other open source licensed software that is incompatible with the GPL, and that came somewhat unexpectedly. Controversy and debate shouldn't be bad words. Those are the things that help us improve how we relate to one another, which is far more important than being "professional". “I am sure these debates have taken way too much time and energy.”

This is ridiculous. Being a social creature means being responsible to those you affect. People aren’t entitled to his work, but they certainly are entitled to question his actions and to express how they’re negatively impacted by the change. While the new license fits proprietary and GPL work, it has stunted an upgrade path for other open source licensed software that is incompatible with the GPL, and that came somewhat unexpectedly.

Controversy and debate shouldn’t be bad words. Those are the things that help us improve how we relate to one another, which is far more important than being “professional”.

]]> By: digitalIchi http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263173 digitalIchi Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:29:38 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263173 One thing that would be a great service to the community and help with whole... "Let’s grow the Open Web. The bigger we grow it. The bigger the pie. And, then we all succeed." ... thing, is for Ajaxian with its power to get someone that actually knows something about the GPL license and it's application to an Ajax library to give their thought's on this subject. There are many question people including myself have questions about it. One thing that would be a great service to the community and help with whole… “Let’s grow the Open Web. The bigger we grow it. The bigger the pie. And, then we all succeed.” … thing, is for Ajaxian with its power to get someone that actually knows something about the GPL license and it’s application to an Ajax library to give their thought’s on this subject. There are many question people including myself have questions about it.

]]> By: Hans Schmucker http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263172 Hans Schmucker Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:16:28 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263172 Well, that's OpenSource for you... but one by one. 1. If you want to publish your work as OpenSource, you'll have to play by OpenSource rules... you can choose to play by any other set of rules, but if you want to claim to be an OpenSource project, then you've got to play by their rules, there's no way around that. Playing by your own rules is fine, just don't advertise as OS, but use a term reserved for these limited licenses like "Shared Source", "Free" or "Community-Driven". 2. I absolutely agree on the "Asset" system. OpenSource is about improving a project's sourcecode and while you should provide necessary components (such as an example theme), there's no need for content that does nothing for people that want to fork to be released as OpenSource as well. This is absolutely in line with what OpenSource is about. 3. If you don't want people to fork into legit projects, with or without your help, then OpenSource is not for you. I know these rules are sometimes tough, but you've got to see it like this: "Open Source" is like a seal of quality that you can use to advertise if you follow the rules. Well, that’s OpenSource for you… but one by one.
1. If you want to publish your work as OpenSource, you’ll have to play by OpenSource rules… you can choose to play by any other set of rules, but if you want to claim to be an OpenSource project, then you’ve got to play by their rules, there’s no way around that. Playing by your own rules is fine, just don’t advertise as OS, but use a term reserved for these limited licenses like “Shared Source”, “Free” or “Community-Driven”.
2. I absolutely agree on the “Asset” system. OpenSource is about improving a project’s sourcecode and while you should provide necessary components (such as an example theme), there’s no need for content that does nothing for people that want to fork to be released as OpenSource as well. This is absolutely in line with what OpenSource is about.
3. If you don’t want people to fork into legit projects, with or without your help, then OpenSource is not for you.

I know these rules are sometimes tough, but you’ve got to see it like this: “Open Source” is like a seal of quality that you can use to advertise if you follow the rules.

]]> By: SchizoDuckie http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses/comment-page-1#comment-263170 SchizoDuckie Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:50:11 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-and-the-fun-with-open-source-licenses#comment-263170 I can really understand that people need to make money, but the're no license whatsoever keeping people who care shit about that from just grabbing your JS and copying/altering it. That's the hard facts, but please, let these three or four people pet themselves on the back for pirating someone's stuff and hope that revenue will come from selling licenses. One tip though. Stay professional whatever happens. Google knows all and this will stab you in the back when people do research about your license. I can really understand that people need to make money, but the’re no license whatsoever keeping people who care shit about that from just grabbing your JS and copying/altering it. That’s the hard facts, but please, let these three or four people pet themselves on the back for pirating someone’s stuff and hope that revenue will come from selling licenses.

One tip though. Stay professional whatever happens. Google knows all and this will stab you in the back when people do research about your license.

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