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	<title>Comments on: Ext JS responds with Open Source FLOSS Exceptions</title>
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		<title>By: pnp</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263323</link>
		<dc:creator>pnp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 16:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263323</guid>
		<description>@Jack,  pyalot is right. The GNU itself states it rather clearly in the presentations of their licenses http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html

â€œThe GNU Affero General Public License is based on the GNU GPL, but has an additional term to allow users who interact with the licensed software over a network to receive the source for that program.â€

Note that the GNU use the word â€œinteractâ€, not â€œconnectâ€, it means â€œhuman interactionâ€ it has nothing to do with whether the software makes use of sockets or whatever else.

The additional term referred to in the introduction is the #13. â€œRemote Network Interaction; Use with the GNU General Public License.â€
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl.html

That at some point says:
â€œâ€¦ if you modify the Program, your modified version must prominently offer all users interacting with it remotely through a computer network (if your version supports such interaction) an opportunity to receive the Corresponding Source of your versionâ€¦â€
This additional term is required to limit the usage of software (or as GNU more correctly puts it: â€œto allow users to receive the source of that programâ€)  under a software-as-a-service model because the GPL v3 do not limit it:
Pls. Read the definition of propagation an conveying, and take note of the item 2 â€œBasic Permissionsâ€ that states:
â€œYou may make, run and propagate covered works that you do not convey, without conditions â€¦ 
â€¦Conveying under any other circumstances is permitted solely under the conditions stated below.â€

This means that the GPL applies conditions to your usage of the software solely in the case that you convey (read: distribute) the software.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jack,  pyalot is right. The GNU itself states it rather clearly in the presentations of their licenses <a href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html</a></p>
<p>â€œThe GNU Affero General Public License is based on the GNU GPL, but has an additional term to allow users who interact with the licensed software over a network to receive the source for that program.â€</p>
<p>Note that the GNU use the word â€œinteractâ€, not â€œconnectâ€, it means â€œhuman interactionâ€ it has nothing to do with whether the software makes use of sockets or whatever else.</p>
<p>The additional term referred to in the introduction is the #13. â€œRemote Network Interaction; Use with the GNU General Public License.â€<br />
<a href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl.html</a></p>
<p>That at some point says:<br />
â€œâ€¦ if you modify the Program, your modified version must prominently offer all users interacting with it remotely through a computer network (if your version supports such interaction) an opportunity to receive the Corresponding Source of your versionâ€¦â€<br />
This additional term is required to limit the usage of software (or as GNU more correctly puts it: â€œto allow users to receive the source of that programâ€)  under a software-as-a-service model because the GPL v3 do not limit it:<br />
Pls. Read the definition of propagation an conveying, and take note of the item 2 â€œBasic Permissionsâ€ that states:<br />
â€œYou may make, run and propagate covered works that you do not convey, without conditions â€¦<br />
â€¦Conveying under any other circumstances is permitted solely under the conditions stated below.â€</p>
<p>This means that the GPL applies conditions to your usage of the software solely in the case that you convey (read: distribute) the software.</p>
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		<title>By: kalqlate</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263302</link>
		<dc:creator>kalqlate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 00:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263302</guid>
		<description>@jackslocum

Just took the time to actually read about the FLOSS exceptions on your site and see that you will answer these questions in due time. For my circumstances, the commercial license is quite fair. Ext-JS puts a shine on any project by improving its UI and function many times greater than it might be without.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jackslocum</p>
<p>Just took the time to actually read about the FLOSS exceptions on your site and see that you will answer these questions in due time. For my circumstances, the commercial license is quite fair. Ext-JS puts a shine on any project by improving its UI and function many times greater than it might be without.</p>
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		<title>By: kalqlate</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263301</link>
		<dc:creator>kalqlate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 00:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263301</guid>
		<description>@jackslocum @Venkman.

We really appreciate you and your work Jack. Please end the confusion. While it may be clear how GPL v3 relates to Ext-JS in your mind, it would help the current and would-be users of your library to know what your answers are to Venkman&#039;s thorough set of scenarios and questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jackslocum @Venkman.</p>
<p>We really appreciate you and your work Jack. Please end the confusion. While it may be clear how GPL v3 relates to Ext-JS in your mind, it would help the current and would-be users of your library to know what your answers are to Venkman&#8217;s thorough set of scenarios and questions.</p>
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		<title>By: pyalot</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263272</link>
		<dc:creator>pyalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263272</guid>
		<description>@jackslocum @krancour

The GPL requires you to distribute your drivative work, based on GPL work, in source form if you distribute your work in non source form. Derivation is defined as linkage of any form or flavor. You may escape that requirement if your work links against the GPL work in form of plugin mechanism, where you can exchange it or take it out and your work still works.

This means that whatever you do on the server, commercial and/or proprietary, is not in any way restricted by the GPL licenses of a javascript library you use, because 1) you don&#039;t distribute your derivation and 2) it&#039;s not a derivate because it consitutes no linkage under the GPL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jackslocum @krancour</p>
<p>The GPL requires you to distribute your drivative work, based on GPL work, in source form if you distribute your work in non source form. Derivation is defined as linkage of any form or flavor. You may escape that requirement if your work links against the GPL work in form of plugin mechanism, where you can exchange it or take it out and your work still works.</p>
<p>This means that whatever you do on the server, commercial and/or proprietary, is not in any way restricted by the GPL licenses of a javascript library you use, because 1) you don&#8217;t distribute your derivation and 2) it&#8217;s not a derivate because it consitutes no linkage under the GPL.</p>
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		<title>By: Joeri</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263259</link>
		<dc:creator>Joeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263259</guid>
		<description>@krancour: You&#039;re right at copyright licenses only apply on distribution (the making of copies). In this case, there are two steps of distribution. The first is when you obtain a copy from Ext, where you cannot obtain a legal copy unless you agree to one of the two license schemes. The second is when you copy it further on, where you must obey the chosen license. Under a pure GPL license, you don&#039;t have to provide the source to your apps if you don&#039;t distribute them. However, the question is whether including Ext in a self-hosted web app is distribution. As Ext is a client-side library, the client must obtain a copy of it, so in court it might be argued that distribution implicitly takes place merely by using the web application.

I am not a lawyer however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@krancour: You&#8217;re right at copyright licenses only apply on distribution (the making of copies). In this case, there are two steps of distribution. The first is when you obtain a copy from Ext, where you cannot obtain a legal copy unless you agree to one of the two license schemes. The second is when you copy it further on, where you must obey the chosen license. Under a pure GPL license, you don&#8217;t have to provide the source to your apps if you don&#8217;t distribute them. However, the question is whether including Ext in a self-hosted web app is distribution. As Ext is a client-side library, the client must obtain a copy of it, so in court it might be argued that distribution implicitly takes place merely by using the web application.</p>
<p>I am not a lawyer however.</p>
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		<title>By: mbavio</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263248</link>
		<dc:creator>mbavio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263248</guid>
		<description>Jack, I have to congratulate you, you are really an evil genious! With all this fuzz, ExtJS has increased its popularity a lot! Besides, now you can get a degree as a lawyer :)

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, I have to congratulate you, you are really an evil genious! With all this fuzz, ExtJS has increased its popularity a lot! Besides, now you can get a degree as a lawyer :)</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: krancour</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263241</link>
		<dc:creator>krancour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263241</guid>
		<description>I am thoroughly confused.  My understanding of GPL (I&#039;ll confess I am not a lawyer) was that if your product itself contains a product licensed under GPL, then your product must be licensed under GPL as well.  However, I understood this to be applicable only to software that is BEING DISTRIBUTED.  Jack seems to interpret this differently- speaking in terms of &quot;commercial advantage.&quot;  My company has an application with many thousands of users that is not currently using Ext, but is planning to.  The application is NOT BEING DISTRIBUTED (i.e. we don&#039;t bundle and sell and/or give away our application for installation on others&#039; servers).  With all this in mind, what would be my company&#039;s actual obligations under GPL (or under Ext&#039;s dual licensing model) if we were to use Ext?  Ordinarily I wouldn&#039;t ask such a question, but right now, I&#039;m really questioning my understanding of GPL and OS licenses in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am thoroughly confused.  My understanding of GPL (I&#8217;ll confess I am not a lawyer) was that if your product itself contains a product licensed under GPL, then your product must be licensed under GPL as well.  However, I understood this to be applicable only to software that is BEING DISTRIBUTED.  Jack seems to interpret this differently- speaking in terms of &#8220;commercial advantage.&#8221;  My company has an application with many thousands of users that is not currently using Ext, but is planning to.  The application is NOT BEING DISTRIBUTED (i.e. we don&#8217;t bundle and sell and/or give away our application for installation on others&#8217; servers).  With all this in mind, what would be my company&#8217;s actual obligations under GPL (or under Ext&#8217;s dual licensing model) if we were to use Ext?  Ordinarily I wouldn&#8217;t ask such a question, but right now, I&#8217;m really questioning my understanding of GPL and OS licenses in general.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263235</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263235</guid>
		<description>I agree with CyMonk, but disagree with deadcabbit. When I choose a product, I don&#039;t have the time and wisdom to understand their license. So I only use OSS endorsed licenses since they have done the heavy work for me and I only need to read the OSS FAQ to get a layman understanding of what their endorsed licenses allow and deny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with CyMonk, but disagree with deadcabbit. When I choose a product, I don&#8217;t have the time and wisdom to understand their license. So I only use OSS endorsed licenses since they have done the heavy work for me and I only need to read the OSS FAQ to get a layman understanding of what their endorsed licenses allow and deny.</p>
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		<title>By: Venkman</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263232</link>
		<dc:creator>Venkman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263232</guid>
		<description>Hi, there everyone.
Let&#039;s pretend I&#039;m new to Ext JS.

A. I want to build my personal/friends/family site using Ext JS. It&#039;s a non-profit, personal use site. You know, maybe some sort of blog, forum, photo gallery, whatever. I&#039;m not distributing my site&#039;s code as an application, just building this particular site for personal use.

B. I want to play a bit with Javascript, do some demos, maybe some nifty small utility. I do plan to distribute whatever note-taking/music-managing/bookmark-keeping/micro-forum application I build. People will download it freely/openly and be able to install on their servers.

C. As above but I do intend to have a commercial version of my photo-gallery application people can buy and then download or something like that.

D. As above but instead of selling the application, I intend to sell the service as a hosted application.

E. I want to use and extend Ext JS. I have some ideas for some components or themes or small modifications which I&#039;d like to implement. I do not plan to distribute these changes.

F. As E, but I do plan to distribute, in an open free way.

G. As E, but I&#039;m thinking about a commercial distribution of my enhancements.

H. I want to use Ext JS in some professional projects. I do some work for some client and want to include use of Ext JS in those projects. This is paid work, but it&#039;s not widely distributed. Just to the particular client.

I. As H, but I plan to use Ext JS for internal application development at the company I work for. I.1. Some intranet or maybe I.2 the public corporate site.

J. I need some particular modifications to Ext JS which are not in agreement with part/the rest/some of the community or are too specific to my needs or whatever reason. I&#039;m thinking about a fork.

(If anyone sees more situations not covered, please do add them)


The questions are:
1. Am I entitled to do these things?
2. Under which circumstances?
3. Which licences apply?

Please, when answering this, try to differentiate legal and moral reasons. If I *can* do it, but it would be frowned upon or otherwise be seen as rude, inmoral or improper, state so.


Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, there everyone.<br />
Let&#8217;s pretend I&#8217;m new to Ext JS.</p>
<p>A. I want to build my personal/friends/family site using Ext JS. It&#8217;s a non-profit, personal use site. You know, maybe some sort of blog, forum, photo gallery, whatever. I&#8217;m not distributing my site&#8217;s code as an application, just building this particular site for personal use.</p>
<p>B. I want to play a bit with Javascript, do some demos, maybe some nifty small utility. I do plan to distribute whatever note-taking/music-managing/bookmark-keeping/micro-forum application I build. People will download it freely/openly and be able to install on their servers.</p>
<p>C. As above but I do intend to have a commercial version of my photo-gallery application people can buy and then download or something like that.</p>
<p>D. As above but instead of selling the application, I intend to sell the service as a hosted application.</p>
<p>E. I want to use and extend Ext JS. I have some ideas for some components or themes or small modifications which I&#8217;d like to implement. I do not plan to distribute these changes.</p>
<p>F. As E, but I do plan to distribute, in an open free way.</p>
<p>G. As E, but I&#8217;m thinking about a commercial distribution of my enhancements.</p>
<p>H. I want to use Ext JS in some professional projects. I do some work for some client and want to include use of Ext JS in those projects. This is paid work, but it&#8217;s not widely distributed. Just to the particular client.</p>
<p>I. As H, but I plan to use Ext JS for internal application development at the company I work for. I.1. Some intranet or maybe I.2 the public corporate site.</p>
<p>J. I need some particular modifications to Ext JS which are not in agreement with part/the rest/some of the community or are too specific to my needs or whatever reason. I&#8217;m thinking about a fork.</p>
<p>(If anyone sees more situations not covered, please do add them)</p>
<p>The questions are:<br />
1. Am I entitled to do these things?<br />
2. Under which circumstances?<br />
3. Which licences apply?</p>
<p>Please, when answering this, try to differentiate legal and moral reasons. If I *can* do it, but it would be frowned upon or otherwise be seen as rude, inmoral or improper, state so.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: deadcabbit</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263229</link>
		<dc:creator>deadcabbit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263229</guid>
		<description>Hope they can clear up the mess, licensing issues tend to scare people away :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope they can clear up the mess, licensing issues tend to scare people away :(</p>
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		<title>By: jerrybrown5</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263228</link>
		<dc:creator>jerrybrown5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263228</guid>
		<description>I heard somewhere that outside of writing legal briefs full time. Jack Slocom does some occasional JavaScript programming. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard somewhere that outside of writing legal briefs full time. Jack Slocom does some occasional JavaScript programming. :)</p>
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		<title>By: jackslocum</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263227</link>
		<dc:creator>jackslocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263227</guid>
		<description>pyalot, the AGPL has nothing to do with ExtJS and is not applicable. The AGPL adds additional conditions to cover network interaction for programs that can be connected to over a network. Ext JS can&#039;t be connected to and until JavaScript gets server sockets, I don&#039;t imagine it ever will be. Thanks anyway for the advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pyalot, the AGPL has nothing to do with ExtJS and is not applicable. The AGPL adds additional conditions to cover network interaction for programs that can be connected to over a network. Ext JS can&#8217;t be connected to and until JavaScript gets server sockets, I don&#8217;t imagine it ever will be. Thanks anyway for the advice.</p>
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		<title>By: pyalot</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263225</link>
		<dc:creator>pyalot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263225</guid>
		<description>Jack seems to think you can&#039;t use the ExtJS GPLv3 license to build proprietary web applications. That is wrong. the AGPLv3 would not allow you to do that. With the GPLv3 (as with the GPLv2) you can be a fully proprietary web application, and you&#039;ll only have to convey ExtJS in source form.
_If_ you use open-source licenses, please read them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack seems to think you can&#8217;t use the ExtJS GPLv3 license to build proprietary web applications. That is wrong. the AGPLv3 would not allow you to do that. With the GPLv3 (as with the GPLv2) you can be a fully proprietary web application, and you&#8217;ll only have to convey ExtJS in source form.<br />
_If_ you use open-source licenses, please read them!</p>
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		<title>By: maxxdogg</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-js-responds-with-open-source-floss-exceptions/comment-page-1#comment-263221</link>
		<dc:creator>maxxdogg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3598#comment-263221</guid>
		<description>Ext JS is dead....Long live Ext JS!
PS...This was just a publicity stunt constructed by Jack...that guy is brilliant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ext JS is dead&#8230;.Long live Ext JS!<br />
PS&#8230;This was just a publicity stunt constructed by Jack&#8230;that guy is brilliant.</p>
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