<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: ExtensionFM: A case study on a sexy app, turn extension</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension</link>
	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 07:43:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: wukfit</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284441</link>
		<dc:creator>wukfit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 08:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284441</guid>
		<description>@rosamez: &quot;“The run-anywhere aspect is probably the biggest and most exciting benefit.” – which is a lie (like the cake),&quot; -  &quot;or a client with an IE6 requirement&quot;
Chrome (5??) is one of the &quot;new desktop emulation layers&quot; - IE6 is 10 years old...hardly new. Chrome, Firefox, Opera and IE and all starting to support new standard APIs/features that make these types of xbrowser apps possible... Workers, Video, Audio, File Access, Geolocation, Hardware accelerated GFX, DND, SVG.. etc etc...
&quot;but what about making these web apps behave “pretty similar” in the different desktop browsers? God damn hard to do so… &quot; - no one said it as easy (&quot;write-once-run-anywhere-**almost**&quot;)- like Joeri said if you can&#039;t/don&#039;t want to write the code that handles any differences use a toolkit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@rosamez: &#8220;“The run-anywhere aspect is probably the biggest and most exciting benefit.” – which is a lie (like the cake),&#8221; &#8211;  &#8220;or a client with an IE6 requirement&#8221;<br />
Chrome (5??) is one of the &#8220;new desktop emulation layers&#8221; &#8211; IE6 is 10 years old&#8230;hardly new. Chrome, Firefox, Opera and IE and all starting to support new standard APIs/features that make these types of xbrowser apps possible&#8230; Workers, Video, Audio, File Access, Geolocation, Hardware accelerated GFX, DND, SVG.. etc etc&#8230;<br />
&#8220;but what about making these web apps behave “pretty similar” in the different desktop browsers? God damn hard to do so… &#8221; &#8211; no one said it as easy (&#8220;write-once-run-anywhere-**almost**&#8221;)- like Joeri said if you can&#8217;t/don&#8217;t want to write the code that handles any differences use a toolkit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joeri</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284437</link>
		<dc:creator>Joeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284437</guid>
		<description>@rosamez: use a toolkit that abstracts away the differences. ExtJS does a pretty good job on the desktop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@rosamez: use a toolkit that abstracts away the differences. ExtJS does a pretty good job on the desktop.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rosamez</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284416</link>
		<dc:creator>rosamez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284416</guid>
		<description>&quot;The run-anywhere aspect is probably the biggest and most exciting benefit.&quot; - which is a lie (like the cake), because of browser and platform differences. In this case the mobile safari reload bug (feature, depends on from where you look at it) is a total show stopper - but what about making these web apps behave &quot;pretty similar&quot; in the different desktop browsers? God damn hard to do so... and I haven&#039;t even started on rendering or ecmascript implementation differences, or a client with an IE6 requirement - run-anywhere it is not at all. In the far future - maybe, but I doubt - but hell, maybe we&#039;ll be able to run a music player with 512mb ram and then we can live happily ever after.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The run-anywhere aspect is probably the biggest and most exciting benefit.&#8221; &#8211; which is a lie (like the cake), because of browser and platform differences. In this case the mobile safari reload bug (feature, depends on from where you look at it) is a total show stopper &#8211; but what about making these web apps behave &#8220;pretty similar&#8221; in the different desktop browsers? God damn hard to do so&#8230; and I haven&#8217;t even started on rendering or ecmascript implementation differences, or a client with an IE6 requirement &#8211; run-anywhere it is not at all. In the far future &#8211; maybe, but I doubt &#8211; but hell, maybe we&#8217;ll be able to run a music player with 512mb ram and then we can live happily ever after.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: adunn</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284368</link>
		<dc:creator>adunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284368</guid>
		<description>I agree, the better developers will create amazing applications with less effort with HTML/JS/CSS compared to traditional desktop programming. And no one will use something that sucks, so there&#039;s that natural filter on quality.

&quot;I suspect that this *new* desktop emulation layer consumes less resources than Windows 7 Ultimate for instance&quot;

Sure, but windows is an entire OS. The windows GUI APIs definitely use very little resources compared to a full web renderer. But we&#039;ll just through hardware at it and all will be well ;).

The run-anywhere aspect is probably the biggest and most exciting benefit. Part of the reason the web is now achieving what so many desktop languages and tool kits have failed to do so far is that the web has always been sandboxed. There&#039;s little access to anything on the system that could cause cross-platform issues. It sounds like many of these interactions are being addressed with web workers, sockets, and local storage. And I think I heard some talk of using web sockets to interact with the file system. But there are still many (maybe edge-case for most people) interactions that won&#039;t be possible. So there&#039;s the question of where to draw the line on capabilities. For now that&#039;s easy as web applications are zero install and shouldn&#039;t have that much access to the system. As soon as they can be installed developers are going to try for more complicated interactions and will end up limiting compatibility. And that can be basic things, like relying on a certain windows command line utility to be present on the system. But of course it&#039;s all about how you use your tools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, the better developers will create amazing applications with less effort with HTML/JS/CSS compared to traditional desktop programming. And no one will use something that sucks, so there&#8217;s that natural filter on quality.</p>
<p>&#8220;I suspect that this *new* desktop emulation layer consumes less resources than Windows 7 Ultimate for instance&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure, but windows is an entire OS. The windows GUI APIs definitely use very little resources compared to a full web renderer. But we&#8217;ll just through hardware at it and all will be well ;).</p>
<p>The run-anywhere aspect is probably the biggest and most exciting benefit. Part of the reason the web is now achieving what so many desktop languages and tool kits have failed to do so far is that the web has always been sandboxed. There&#8217;s little access to anything on the system that could cause cross-platform issues. It sounds like many of these interactions are being addressed with web workers, sockets, and local storage. And I think I heard some talk of using web sockets to interact with the file system. But there are still many (maybe edge-case for most people) interactions that won&#8217;t be possible. So there&#8217;s the question of where to draw the line on capabilities. For now that&#8217;s easy as web applications are zero install and shouldn&#8217;t have that much access to the system. As soon as they can be installed developers are going to try for more complicated interactions and will end up limiting compatibility. And that can be basic things, like relying on a certain windows command line utility to be present on the system. But of course it&#8217;s all about how you use your tools.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wukfit</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284364</link>
		<dc:creator>wukfit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284364</guid>
		<description>@adunn I think its what this *new* desktop emulation layer brings - it lowers the bars so to speak, zero install, write-once-run-anywhere-almost... and there are always going to be good programmers and bad programmers, good designers and bad designers, good plumbers and bad plumbers, etc. In some cases this *new* desktop emulation layer is replacing the traditional one (ChromeOS, WebOS et al) and I suspect that this *new* desktop emulation layer consumes less resources than Windows 7 Ultimate for instance.

&quot;On one hand, it’s pretty absurd that a simple document renderer has become this monster runtime. &quot; - and who would have thought we would have gone from this (http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/Talks/0508-query-log-privacy/phone-booth-red.jpg) to this (http://river.webblogg.se/images/2008/ericsson_hotline450combi_1206637992_860903.jpg) to this (http://cdn.mos.techradar.com//classifications/gadgets/phones/mobile-phones/iPhone/iphone4_2up_front_side-728-75.jpg)... ;o)... back when browsers were created thats all people needed/wanted...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@adunn I think its what this *new* desktop emulation layer brings &#8211; it lowers the bars so to speak, zero install, write-once-run-anywhere-almost&#8230; and there are always going to be good programmers and bad programmers, good designers and bad designers, good plumbers and bad plumbers, etc. In some cases this *new* desktop emulation layer is replacing the traditional one (ChromeOS, WebOS et al) and I suspect that this *new* desktop emulation layer consumes less resources than Windows 7 Ultimate for instance.</p>
<p>&#8220;On one hand, it’s pretty absurd that a simple document renderer has become this monster runtime. &#8221; &#8211; and who would have thought we would have gone from this (<a href="http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/Talks/0508-query-log-privacy/phone-booth-red.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/Talks/0508-query-log-privacy/phone-booth-red.jpg</a>) to this (<a href="http://river.webblogg.se/images/2008/ericsson_hotline450combi_1206637992_860903.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://river.webblogg.se/images/2008/ericsson_hotline450combi_1206637992_860903.jpg</a>) to this (<a href="http://cdn.mos.techradar.com//classifications/gadgets/phones/mobile-phones/iPhone/iphone4_2up_front_side-728-75.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://cdn.mos.techradar.com//classifications/gadgets/phones/mobile-phones/iPhone/iphone4_2up_front_side-728-75.jpg</a>)&#8230; ;o)&#8230; back when browsers were created thats all people needed/wanted&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: adunn</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284360</link>
		<dc:creator>adunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284360</guid>
		<description>@wukfit

I think that&#039;s the point: do we really need another desktop emulation layer? Especially one that uses so much of your system resources before it even does anything useful.

On one hand, it&#039;s pretty absurd that a simple document renderer has become this monster runtime. On the other, it does have an advantage over current technologies like Swing. Accessibility to developers. Which tends to be a bad thing (check out the source to any VB Script application...), but is also good in that the thing that is accessibility is not just &quot;recreating that which already exists,&quot; it&#039;s the ability to create highly interactive things in a space where it&#039;s currently difficult. And there&#039;s this derogatory term, &quot;programmer art.&quot; But now all these great designers making these fantastic-looking-and-behaving things for the internet can possibly one day do the same for the desktop. Yet the overall perceived quality of desktop apps will most likely tank, because now all the worst programmers and non-programmers can make basic programs that use 80MB of ram and have a horrible user experience. Just as how everyone assumes that VB Script (or PHP, or JavaScript, or ...) sucks because so many non-programmers use them, HTML5 on the desktop could end up being a tragedy of the commons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@wukfit</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s the point: do we really need another desktop emulation layer? Especially one that uses so much of your system resources before it even does anything useful.</p>
<p>On one hand, it&#8217;s pretty absurd that a simple document renderer has become this monster runtime. On the other, it does have an advantage over current technologies like Swing. Accessibility to developers. Which tends to be a bad thing (check out the source to any VB Script application&#8230;), but is also good in that the thing that is accessibility is not just &#8220;recreating that which already exists,&#8221; it&#8217;s the ability to create highly interactive things in a space where it&#8217;s currently difficult. And there&#8217;s this derogatory term, &#8220;programmer art.&#8221; But now all these great designers making these fantastic-looking-and-behaving things for the internet can possibly one day do the same for the desktop. Yet the overall perceived quality of desktop apps will most likely tank, because now all the worst programmers and non-programmers can make basic programs that use 80MB of ram and have a horrible user experience. Just as how everyone assumes that VB Script (or PHP, or JavaScript, or &#8230;) sucks because so many non-programmers use them, HTML5 on the desktop could end up being a tragedy of the commons.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wukfit</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284356</link>
		<dc:creator>wukfit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284356</guid>
		<description>@jhuni - I assume you&#039;re being ironic as your link points to a web based emulation of the desktop... ;o)

I would say...

What’s the environment in which the application runs? Is it really a browser, or just another runtime in the OS? What’s the difference between a browser running a JavaScript App and a JRE running a Swing app (Swing is not native - it is another desktop emulation)? - Perhaps I&#039;m being one of those &quot;Architecture Astronauts&quot;.

I think the line has (or more likely, always was) blurred for those who aren’t technology professionals. There’s not much difference between clicking on an icon to open a desktop application versus clicking on an icon that launches a browser and loads a web application. Do most users really care that there’s a distinction between a desktop app and a web app? I don’t think so, or are they really concerned with getting the job done quickly and efficiently (and hopefully enjoying the process)?

@nataxia - If you can&#039;t be first to market, be the best. I&#039;m sure the business owner(s) of ExtensionFM will have done market research into whether the product is viable or not and any legalities associated with that product space - if they haven&#039;t then it will likely fail.

I would *guess* there is a market for this type of product/service as Marketing and PR companies are using blogs/websites to promote Artists and their music - (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/feb/11/google-deletes-music-blogs).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jhuni &#8211; I assume you&#8217;re being ironic as your link points to a web based emulation of the desktop&#8230; ;o)</p>
<p>I would say&#8230;</p>
<p>What’s the environment in which the application runs? Is it really a browser, or just another runtime in the OS? What’s the difference between a browser running a JavaScript App and a JRE running a Swing app (Swing is not native &#8211; it is another desktop emulation)? &#8211; Perhaps I&#8217;m being one of those &#8220;Architecture Astronauts&#8221;.</p>
<p>I think the line has (or more likely, always was) blurred for those who aren’t technology professionals. There’s not much difference between clicking on an icon to open a desktop application versus clicking on an icon that launches a browser and loads a web application. Do most users really care that there’s a distinction between a desktop app and a web app? I don’t think so, or are they really concerned with getting the job done quickly and efficiently (and hopefully enjoying the process)?</p>
<p>@nataxia &#8211; If you can&#8217;t be first to market, be the best. I&#8217;m sure the business owner(s) of ExtensionFM will have done market research into whether the product is viable or not and any legalities associated with that product space &#8211; if they haven&#8217;t then it will likely fail.</p>
<p>I would *guess* there is a market for this type of product/service as Marketing and PR companies are using blogs/websites to promote Artists and their music &#8211; (<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/feb/11/google-deletes-music-blogs" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/feb/11/google-deletes-music-blogs</a>).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: friendlyjs</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284355</link>
		<dc:creator>friendlyjs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 08:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284355</guid>
		<description>I tried ExtensionFM and have to say I found it rather brilliant, the fact I&#039;m a total music obsessive and spend a lot of my time crawling music blogs using hype machine (http://hypem.com) is definitely a factor. It enhances this experience so much that it might encourage me to move totally over to Chrome for my regular browsing, since I normally have some hype machine stuff going on in a background tab or two. Excellent job! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried ExtensionFM and have to say I found it rather brilliant, the fact I&#8217;m a total music obsessive and spend a lot of my time crawling music blogs using hype machine (<a href="http://hypem.com" rel="nofollow">http://hypem.com</a>) is definitely a factor. It enhances this experience so much that it might encourage me to move totally over to Chrome for my regular browsing, since I normally have some hype machine stuff going on in a background tab or two. Excellent job! :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: j2d2</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284349</link>
		<dc:creator>j2d2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284349</guid>
		<description>Do either of you have a suggestion on how the UI for extension.fm could be improved? I tend to think about music in the form of a massive library, a queue or an unpredictable stream akin to radio programming.

I&#039;m not sure a different UI would actually serve the music listener well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do either of you have a suggestion on how the UI for extension.fm could be improved? I tend to think about music in the form of a massive library, a queue or an unpredictable stream akin to radio programming.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure a different UI would actually serve the music listener well&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jhuni</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284346</link>
		<dc:creator>jhuni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 19:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284346</guid>
		<description>Indeed, I agree with what nataxia just pointed out, emulating the desktop on the web is something short of progress. I have spent countless hours porting desktop applications to the web, but was it worth it? 

Instead of just emulating the existing interfaces on to the web there should be an entirely new interface developed that puts the interests of the user first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, I agree with what nataxia just pointed out, emulating the desktop on the web is something short of progress. I have spent countless hours porting desktop applications to the web, but was it worth it? </p>
<p>Instead of just emulating the existing interfaces on to the web there should be an entirely new interface developed that puts the interests of the user first.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nataxia</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284341</link>
		<dc:creator>nataxia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 15:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284341</guid>
		<description>I think a good read here would be the classic: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html

Perhaps this point might be made: if developers using html5, extensions, etc. only recreate existing user interfaces, software ideas, and so on, there has been something short of progress made.  This is a music player. Is there a large market for those who have been *dying* to play mp3&#039;s they find on webpages? When you think about that question, do you come up with other disruptive music distribution trends (and related lawsuits) which have occupied the popular consciousness since around the time Spolsky wrote his article?  Can I type the name of a song and listen to it? HTML5 (only running in Chrome, no less) does not anesthetize consumer desire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a good read here would be the classic: <a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html</a></p>
<p>Perhaps this point might be made: if developers using html5, extensions, etc. only recreate existing user interfaces, software ideas, and so on, there has been something short of progress made.  This is a music player. Is there a large market for those who have been *dying* to play mp3&#8242;s they find on webpages? When you think about that question, do you come up with other disruptive music distribution trends (and related lawsuits) which have occupied the popular consciousness since around the time Spolsky wrote his article?  Can I type the name of a song and listen to it? HTML5 (only running in Chrome, no less) does not anesthetize consumer desire.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Skilldrick</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/extensionfm-a-case-study-on-a-sexy-app-turn-extension/comment-page-1#comment-284337</link>
		<dc:creator>Skilldrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=9709#comment-284337</guid>
		<description>ExtensionFM looks very cool. I&#039;m in mixed minds about not offering progressive enhancement, but I think it&#039;s acceptable on bleeding-edge projects like this. And anything that encourages FF and IE to keep up with changes to the web (and that encourages users to leave IE6-7) must be a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ExtensionFM looks very cool. I&#8217;m in mixed minds about not offering progressive enhancement, but I think it&#8217;s acceptable on bleeding-edge projects like this. And anything that encourages FF and IE to keep up with changes to the web (and that encourages users to leave IE6-7) must be a good thing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

