Thursday, November 16th, 2006

GetFirebug: 1.0 is getting close

Category: Firefox, JavaScript, Utility

Firebug 1.0 is currently in beta, and looks very different to the 0.4.1 that we all know and love.

The new website Get Firebug gives you a glimpse of what is coming shortly:

I really like how the top screenshot is actually “live”, letting you click on the tabs to see each area. Very nice indeed.

Firebug 1.0

Posted by Dion Almaer at 11:32 am
33 Comments

++++-
4.7 rating from 45 votes

33 Comments »

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This is ingenious!

Comment by Andi — November 16, 2006

Check out the author’s personal blog for a discussion on the future financing of Firebug, whether he should charge for it, etc.

http://www.joehewitt.com/

Comment by Jon — November 16, 2006

So what to do about the fact that 100% of my users are running IE? Firebug+Firefox = 0 to guys that write software for corporate purposes. I like everything the Firefox gurus are doing, but part of me wonders, would it REALLY be impossible to do some of this stuff for IE?

Comment by Snootz — November 16, 2006

So what to do about the fact that 100% of my users are running IE? Firebug+Firefox = 0 to guys that write software for corporate purposes.
For sufficiently large values of zero. It is a development tool. It’s not required for the end user. Forgive my frankness, but your comment leaves me scratching my head as to how you consider yourself a developer.

Comment by Paradise Pete — November 16, 2006

Snootz,
Firebug and FireFox is just as valuable for you as it is anyone else. This is a tool for JavaScript and just because it isn’t specifically for IE doesn’t mean that you can’t use it. I’m in a similar shop and use FireFox+Firebug+ColorZilla+Colour Contrast Analyser+Dom Inspector+Fangs+IE Tab+MeasureIt+Selenium IDE+Web Developer

This small set of tools has me running circles around the IE only set. Plus my code is cleaner, html tighter and CSS is cross browser. The result is that I sleep well at night knowing that a sudden shift in compatibility policy (ADA), browser type or upgrade to IE7 won’t screw me out of my nights and weekends.

Comment by Scott — November 16, 2006

Ok, if I’m not a developer then tell me “know it alls”, who uses what you write? Do you really care if it works on every browser? And do you really think that writing all your code in FireFox with all the dev tools is going to make it work in IE? Which, I hate to break it to you guys in the Linux t-shirts, is what most of corporate America (the people with $$) browse with. And honestly I’m sick of hearing about the “cross browser” issues. The fact of the matter is, most of you don’t know how to even write applications without a browser. And you don’t take your head out of your ass long enough to realize that the browser is not the only development environment out there. In fact, if you compared browser apps to so called “desktop apps”, you would see that almost all the crap you guys get excited about here, *cough* dojo charting engine *cough* was accomplished 15 years ago. So Paradick Pete, you’re saying the fact that I choose to write code for people who pay for it instead of writing it “for the cause” or “so that it works in netscape 3.0 on solaris 8” makes me “not” a developer? Wake up man, I’ve been “developing” for a long time and I choose to worry about problems like “Can the CEO see his reports” instead of worrying about petty cross browser issues that the whole concept of “a browser” has created for itself. People like you and the Java goons have single handedly set us all back about 10 years. Keep sipping on the kool aid bud.

Comment by Snootz — November 16, 2006

Snootz dude, as Scott mentioned, this tool is almost every bit as useful for IE as it is for Firefox. If you’re looking at XMLHTTP requests for example, it’s the same stuff no matter what browser you’re using. JavaScript actions aside, you’re looking at pretty much the same DOM, and same CSS attributes on the page. This tool has helped me with various problems, regardless of the browser.

Questioning whether or not you’re a developer was probably a cheap shot, but I think he questioned it because you failed to see that this tool is not Firefox-specific in terms of the problems it helps you solve. Your “Firebug+Firefox = 0” equation is probably more like “Firebug+Firefox = 85%” for corporate/IE development.

Having spent most of my life in the corporate world, I also know the importance of cross-browser compatibility. Tell Apple that your web-ui only supports IE and they’re first request is support for alternate browsers. You’ll see similar things at at least some other Fortune 500 companies (including Cisco, where I used to work).

Comment by Tom — November 16, 2006

Uhm, Snootz? Why are you here then? Dojo is cool, and if you took your head out of your ass long enough to realize (a) this is a website devoted to online applications, the tools behind them and the like; not your corporate desktop applications and (b) Standards, standards, standards!

Let’s recap real quick:

most of you don’t know how to even write applications without a browser” – Know what they say about people who make assumptions?”if you compared browser apps to so called “desktop apps”, you would see that almost all the crap you guys get excited about here, *cough* dojo charting engine *cough* was accomplished 15 years ago” – *cough* Hmm, yes. Operating systems and browsers are very similar and deserve the same comparisons. Oh, wait… no, they don’t.”Do you really care if it works on every browser?” – Yes, yes I do. Although I would love to see a large majority of my visitors using a “modern” browser, I don’t care to alienate those who don’t.”And do you really think that writing all your code in FireFox with all the dev tools is going to make it work in IE?” – Hey there, slow down. No, I don’t believe that at all (and I’d guess most others don’t also) but it does help things. Also, the IE tab feature helps somewhat for this.

You can be sorry all you want and go after corporate America (the people with the $$) but, haven’t you seen lately? Anyone with the right skills can create something that can slingshot them into corporate America (a person with $$). Hell, MySpace is a load of crap but they’re filthy rich.

If you have so much distaste for “hearing about cross-browser issues” and “this isn’t new, this is old news”-mentality. How about you leave?

Comment by Joe — November 16, 2006

Oh and I absolutely love FireBug. I can’t wait for the new version!

Comment by Joe — November 16, 2006

I second the notion that Firebug is a useful tool for developing corporate applications that run primarily on IE. When I encounter a javascript error in IE I just flip over to firefox (often using IE tab with Firefox) so I can debug the error in Firebug. Firebug is also a great tool for digging through the DOM of a web application even if you aren’t in the process of making a change.

It would be nice if Firebug could be used directly in IE…but it’s still extremely useful!

Comment by Will — November 16, 2006

Developer in this content is Web Developer. Why are you ranting about client app development when you’re visiting a site called Ajaxian.

I write C applications, can I make fun of you Snootz? I’m also a hardware developer, are you up to it?

:-/

Comment by CDude — November 16, 2006

mean to say context, not content

Comment by CDude — November 16, 2006

I like everything the Firefox gurus are doing, but part of me wonders, would it REALLY be impossible to do some of this stuff for IE?

Developers are forced to use Firefox+Firebug for assistance with developing because this kind of stuff doesn’t exist for IE. Why doesn’t someone write stuff like this for IE? I don’t know exactly, but I do know that Microsoft’s IE Developer Toolbar is a piece of crap (it’s a great example of an “extension”, something that should expand your capabilities, hindering you in the same way the base application does). I, as a developer, have no need to spend my time developing extensions, for free, for Microsoft’s product — making Microsoft’s product better, or fostering the environment that encourages individuals to, is Microsoft’s responsiblity. I don’t think they really do that. Since I’m not going to get paid to create stuff for Microsoft products on my own time, and I run the risk of pissing off Microsoft for subverting the capabilities of their product (if it makes it “better” or not), I’d get more satifaction from developing for something that, essentially, everyone “owns” and has equal access to.

In terms of potential market share, IE runs on the majority of the computers out there since the majority run Windows. Firefox runs on the majority of operating systems out there solely because it supports more than just Windows. The latter is a greater set than the former.

Comment by Andy — November 16, 2006

There *are* such tools for IE, and some of them have been around for a long time, much longer than the Firefox equivalents – I’ve been using DOMSpy for years (used to be called HTMLTweak until a couple of years ago) and I know there are others. Sure, you have to pay for these tools but the people who benefit most from them are , like myself and I would guess most of the readers here, professional developers – so that shouldn’t be a problem.
I also use firebug of course and look forward to the 1,0 release .

Comment by steve H — November 16, 2006

Snootz,
In answer to your questions:
Q: “who uses what you write?”
A: Every person that works for and is a client of the company I work for.
Q: “Do you really care if it works on every browser?”
A (1): Yes. Any employee that can’t use it counts as productivity lost. Any client that can’t use it will go to a competitor.
A (2): Internal and external browser list: Opera, Safari, IE 5, 5.5, 6 and now 7, FireFox, Jaws, Window-Eyes, braille displays, and Cell Phones.

Q: “do you really think that writing all your code in FireFox with all the dev tools is going to make it work in IE?”
A: No. It makes writing semantic html, css, and JavaScript for browsers that adhere closely to standards work. You still need to adjusting for IE ‘s many, many bugs. But do it long enough and it becomes second nature. As for your last comment, your entitled to your opinion but it seems to me that we didn’t set anything back 10 years rather your stuck 10 years in the past. Just curious, are you the last member of the COmmon Business-Oriented Language club?
Sorry, that was cheep. Fun but cheep none the less. We love you guys and all the great work you did for Y2K.

Comment by Scott — November 16, 2006

Snootz you have just revealed to everyone here that you are a moron.
I write apps which are run exclusively on IE6 in a corporate environment. Have a guess what I use to develop them. Hint: it isn’t visual studio & the ms script debugger.

Comment by Silly — November 16, 2006

I’m a developer who uses ASP.NET & Visual Studio, which is a decidedly MS-centeric way to develop web applications. I love C# and .NET’s way of doing things for the most part, but debugging JS can be a pain. I take great care to ensure cross-browser compatibility because anything except a “corporate” intranet site will have at least 5% or so (a very conservative figure) of people using a non-IE browser. To the clients who pay me, losing 5% of their customers because of compatibility problems is simply not acceptable. These aren’t “guys wearing linux t-shirts”, but companies whos online business is critical to revenue.

Firebug is an excellent (the best, IMO) JS debugger and has perfectly valid uses even on a project where IE compatibility is the primary concern. Wake up man… the current state of the internet does not revolve around your cherished VB desktop apps on yesteryear…

Comment by Will — November 17, 2006

Lets all have a group hug people ;)

Firebug 1.0 looks fantastic and will be a great help to most of us most of the time. Its not gonna solve world hunger, the Middle East crisis or IE idiosyncrasies.

Now cummon, gather round…aaaaaaaah that feels better

Comment by S Rimell — November 17, 2006

End Week Links (17 Oct), Same ole stuff

.NET, C#, VB.NET Using IEnumerable to read a file Many-to-many relationships in O/R Mapping Exporting

Trackback by Hulkster — November 17, 2006

ugh — please don’t feed the Micro$oft trolls, they’re the worst kind.

Comment by mdm-adph — November 17, 2006

[…] Bridge Part 2 Redefining myself into something a lil bit geek-ier   Nov 17th 2006 Ajaxian’s wrap of the day Posted in Dev Hours, Web 2.0 | Remember Firebug? Yes, last version was 0.4.1. And now we jumpforward to 1.0. I’ve always felt helped by Firebug, though I’m sure I haven’t use it to the fullest yet. Mostly used feature are console and the inspector. Javascript debugger has been there allrite, but I’ve never use it much. It really makes sense since what I’ve wrote it crappy script that doesn’t need debugging or it was just undebugable :p. Anyway, this brand new 1.0 is CRAZY. NOticable new feature are live CSS editor, javascript profiler, and network monitor (monitor js file loading with init-like graph benchmarker!). There’s also live HTML editor which has been there before — but I don’t know whether all thing will be editable in this new 1.0. Go check it out! […]

Pingback by Lust::Geek Building The Bridge Part 2 » Ajaxian’s wrap of the day — November 17, 2006

So does this mean Firebug will no longer be free?

Comment by Dale — November 17, 2006

To Snootz,
Do you find the IE javascript debugger to be very helpful? Personally, I really like when I get an error of nondescript type on line 47 char 54 of a document, where no script even exists. Yeah, that’s awesome.

As others have said, Firebug is just as useful for IE development as it is for standards development.

Comment by Trevor — November 17, 2006

You guys are always right, I wish I were as cool as you.

Comment by Snootz — November 17, 2006

It’s not about being cool, it’s about using tools that we find helpful for development.

Comment by Trevor — November 17, 2006

When interviewing Web Developers, i always ask what browser they use. There is only one incorrect answer…

Comment by Kaanon — November 17, 2006

I am not really interested in getting into a flame war and this comment is a shameless plug for two tools for IE that we have been working on:
* DebugBar [http://www.debugbar.com] since 2002 which does a lot of what Firebug does except it is not quite as schnazy looking to say the least (but we are working on improving that)
* Companion.JS [http://www.ieforge.com/CompanionJS] our first step in that direction, a very early release of a Javascript debugging tool inspired by FireBug and other tools that builds up on the experience we acquired with DebugBar

CJS dev. is very much user driven and we welcome any and every form of feedback!

For now we believe there still is a need for IE specific tools in Web Developement … fortunately or not I don’t think it will last forever (I hope not anyway).

Comment by EuGeNe — November 18, 2006

Do you really care if it works on every browser?

Yes, of course I do, don’t you?

And do you really think that writing all your code in FireFox with all the dev tools is going to make it work in IE?

No, of course not, that’s some kind of a wet dream but unreachable right now.

Writing all the code using Firefox does something though: it helps me develop fast, and it helps me develop that works in firefox and almost works in everything else, needs some fixes but usually nothing too drastic.

The opposite choice of writing everything for MSIE and then trying to fix it for other browsers, on the other hand, is suicidal.

what most of corporate America (the people with $$) browse with.

They’re not the one developing the apps/sites, I am, and if I am to develop the site you bet I’m going to develop it using all the tools I can.

The fact of the matter is, most of you don’t know how to even write applications without a browser.

You should be careful with that kind of assumptions kid

And you don’t take your head out of your ass long enough to realize that the browser is not the only development environment out there.

Uh, dude, this is a website called AJAXIAN who only posts stuff on browsers and web tech, if you want non-web-related stuff go to Artima or LtU you fucking idiot

In fact, if you compared browser apps to so called “desktop apps”

Except browser apps are not desktop apps, so the point is moot, please shut up.

So Paradick Pete, you’re saying the fact that I choose to write code for people who pay for it instead of writing it “for the cause” or “so that it works in netscape 3.0 on solaris 8? makes me “not” a developer?

What he’s saying is that you’re not using the best tools out there, you don’t care about people who don’t agree with your choices (remember, 15% of the world is not using MSIE), you don’t realize that you could to a better job faster and with a higher quality.

In a word, you’re not a developer indeed, you’re a code monkey at best, and that’s insulting to monkeys.

There *are* such tools for IE, and some of them have been around for a long time, much longer than the Firefox equivalents

No, there isn’t anything even remotely close to Firebug 0.4 in MSIE, and Furebug 1.0 blows 0.4 out of the water.

There are things that implement some of Firebug’s functionalities in a limited manner, but nothing that’s even remotely as powerful as Firebug.

Plus even if there are some good IE dev tools, most of them feel like “hacks”. And are ugly.

So does this mean Firebug will no longer be free?

No one knows yet, Joe Hewitt was discussing what he should do next: he wants to keep on working on Firebug, but Fb is becoming fairly imposing.

He’s therefore wondering if he should give away the time he spends on it, sell it, or get donations.

I, for one, will be sad if Fb becomes “for pay”: I will definitely buy myself a license or 12, but It’ll be much harder to convert people to using that tool.

Comment by Masklinn — November 18, 2006

[…] Enlace: Firebug Descarga: Firebug Vía: Ajaxian […]

Pingback by Firebug, extensión para Firefox con herramientas para el desarrollo web - ZonaMasters - Recursos para webmasters — November 19, 2006

[…] While everyone else is drooling over the new features of upcoming release of the new Firebug, I was one of the few lucky people to receive a private beta (alpha?) test of this amazing Firefox plug-in. In short: I’m stunned, amazed, and overcome by the beauty and power of this little application… I’m planning to do a full review of it later this afternoon and meanwhile I’ll entertain you by telling you how I’ve “worked” with Joe Hewitt (I really hope he doesn’t mind!) […]

Pingback by ideAjax » Blog Archive » FireBug 1.0a or Six Degrees… — November 20, 2006

Markus

It was quite useful reading, found some interesting details about this topic. Thanks.

Trackback by Wet Shirts — November 30, 2006

I’d like the idea of exploDing the DOM, from time to time :)

Comment by Joel — December 14, 2006

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