Comments on: Google buying On2; New twist in the hope for Open Video http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video Cleaning up the web with Ajax Thu, 17 May 2012 07:43:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Clickplay http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-277935 Clickplay Sat, 16 Jan 2010 22:55:14 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-277935 Good move google Good move google

]]> By: birdtakesbear http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274948 birdtakesbear Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:49:26 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274948 I have been involved in flash video for a while, and the simplicity that flash offers in interacting with that video has always been a great plus. We build seminar applications that sync video, slides, links, chats, etc., and frankly, it's a lot easier to make it work for everyone with a single plugin. That's how flash took over with video. Either you have the plugin and it works, or, you don't and it doesn't. I think that simplicity will keep a lot of video apps in flash for the foreseeable future. That being said, I am excited about open video and we are trying to build our newer applications with flash only delivering the video portion of the page. The amount of testing that has to go into it is significantly higher because of the obvious cross browser issues. If we are stuck in a codec war between ogg, vp6 and h264 that's just another unknown variable to throw into the mix. So, if Google wants to take over open video, we can only hope they do like flash did before. One codec would save so many headaches... I have been involved in flash video for a while, and the simplicity that flash offers in interacting with that video has always been a great plus. We build seminar applications that sync video, slides, links, chats, etc., and frankly, it’s a lot easier to make it work for everyone with a single plugin. That’s how flash took over with video. Either you have the plugin and it works, or, you don’t and it doesn’t. I think that simplicity will keep a lot of video apps in flash for the foreseeable future.

That being said, I am excited about open video and we are trying to build our newer applications with flash only delivering the video portion of the page. The amount of testing that has to go into it is significantly higher because of the obvious cross browser issues. If we are stuck in a codec war between ogg, vp6 and h264 that’s just another unknown variable to throw into the mix. So, if Google wants to take over open video, we can only hope they do like flash did before. One codec would save so many headaches…

]]> By: mjuhl http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274934 mjuhl Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:51:01 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274934 I'm not an advocate for using Flash and non-open-source technologies, but Flash remains because you can design interfaces visually that will look/function the same in all browsers [with the plugin installed]. It's not just about video. Sure, you can recreate most of what's capable with flash using JavaScript/HTML/css/etc. but it's not as simple/intuitive for many designers. That's why native video support isn't going to be the end of Flash. I’m not an advocate for using Flash and non-open-source technologies, but Flash remains because you can design interfaces visually that will look/function the same in all browsers [with the plugin installed]. It’s not just about video. Sure, you can recreate most of what’s capable with flash using JavaScript/HTML/css/etc. but it’s not as simple/intuitive for many designers. That’s why native video support isn’t going to be the end of Flash.

]]> By: gossi http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274933 gossi Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:32:41 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274933 In my eyes, this looks pretty clever to me. It looks to me, that Google is trying to find a codec all browser vendors are able to implement. Just image, if you need to have your videos in 2 formats, that will double the hard disk space and though the cost for that. In case of youtube this amount will be huge! So aquiring on2 and propably open sourcing a codec and removing all patent issues is in the end less cost than to have 2 formats of each video. Hopefully i'm correct with my prognosis. In my eyes, this looks pretty clever to me. It looks to me, that Google is trying to find a codec all browser vendors are able to implement.

Just image, if you need to have your videos in 2 formats, that will double the hard disk space and though the cost for that. In case of youtube this amount will be huge! So aquiring on2 and propably open sourcing a codec and removing all patent issues is in the end less cost than to have 2 formats of each video.

Hopefully i’m correct with my prognosis.

]]> By: bawjaws http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274930 bawjaws Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:06:01 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274930 @travisalmand Flash is useful because it's installed everywhere. And conversely it's installed everywhere because it's useful. Flash began it's long, slow journey into irrelevance when it gave up control and supported standard H.264. As soon as it is delivering the exact same file you could play in Silverlight, Quicktime or directly in HTML5 video then it is added nothing but processor overhead, instability, poor multiplatform support and unwieldy and utterly ineffective DRM. The next big knock was the move off the Windows desktop to alternate devices based around the web. Apple couldn't get it running on iPhone (or didn't want to give Adobe control) and went direct to the source for the most important use of Flash: Youtube. Flash is suddenly less "everywhere" and therefore less "useful". Expect to see similar happening on open platforms like Android and Chrome OS now that there's the chance of a truly open standard codec. The same is also very true of Silverlight which appears even more stuck on the desktop. Flash and Silverlight don't only do video, but video was, until now, the only area where they weren't exposed to direct competition from open source and royalty-free competitors (aka the web) since video has a wall of patents and licencing around it. The wall is gone and they now no longer have a USP that can't be undermined by the open web. @travisalmand

Flash is useful because it’s installed everywhere. And conversely it’s installed everywhere because it’s useful.

Flash began it’s long, slow journey into irrelevance when it gave up control and supported standard H.264. As soon as it is delivering the exact same file you could play in Silverlight, Quicktime or directly in HTML5 video then it is added nothing but processor overhead, instability, poor multiplatform support and unwieldy and utterly ineffective DRM.

The next big knock was the move off the Windows desktop to alternate devices based around the web. Apple couldn’t get it running on iPhone (or didn’t want to give Adobe control) and went direct to the source for the most important use of Flash: Youtube. Flash is suddenly less “everywhere” and therefore less “useful”. Expect to see similar happening on open platforms like Android and Chrome OS now that there’s the chance of a truly open standard codec.

The same is also very true of Silverlight which appears even more stuck on the desktop.

Flash and Silverlight don’t only do video, but video was, until now, the only area where they weren’t exposed to direct competition from open source and royalty-free competitors (aka the web) since video has a wall of patents and licencing around it. The wall is gone and they now no longer have a USP that can’t be undermined by the open web.

]]> By: Malde http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274919 Malde Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:11:47 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274919 I checked my old email. My recollection was wrong. My licencing talks were directly with nellymoser Inc. I checked my old email. My recollection was wrong. My licencing talks were directly with nellymoser Inc.

]]> By: Malde http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274918 Malde Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:00:07 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274918 Ouch, nellymoser is indeed not part owned by On2. My assumption came because they used to be the only entity that sold licences for nellymoser decoders but its been a while since I dived deep into coded territory. Ouch, nellymoser is indeed not part owned by On2. My assumption came because they used to be the only entity that sold licences for nellymoser decoders but its been a while since I dived deep into coded territory.

]]> By: Darkimmortal http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274915 Darkimmortal Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:23:51 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274915 Anything would be better than Ogg Theora. Anything would be better than Ogg Theora.

]]> By: lensco http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274912 lensco Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:43:27 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274912 Hasn't Apple specifically stated they wanted a codec with proper hardware decoding too? Not saying it's up to Apple, but they do have a valid point. Hasn’t Apple specifically stated they wanted a codec with proper hardware decoding too? Not saying it’s up to Apple, but they do have a valid point.

]]> By: travisalmand http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274911 travisalmand Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:44:43 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274911 @idio - If Google owns the codec that has patents attached then I would imagine that Apple would still reject it for "patent concerns." I'm afraid that due to the way patents work in the US just about everything created these days is violating someone's patent. Heck, this post is probably violating at least five. @bawjaws - "More importantly, addressing the real issue, releasing any/all of the modern VP codecs royalty free will destroy both Silverlight and Flash." I guess that's because the only thing Flash and Silverlight are good for are video players? Could you please elaborate on what you mean? @idio – If Google owns the codec that has patents attached then I would imagine that Apple would still reject it for “patent concerns.” I’m afraid that due to the way patents work in the US just about everything created these days is violating someone’s patent. Heck, this post is probably violating at least five.

@bawjaws – “More importantly, addressing the real issue, releasing any/all of the modern VP codecs royalty free will destroy both Silverlight and Flash.”

I guess that’s because the only thing Flash and Silverlight are good for are video players? Could you please elaborate on what you mean?

]]> By: bawjaws http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274909 bawjaws Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:35:41 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274909 Regarding your tweet there, On2 don't own the Nellymoser codec, and Flash 10 (as well as XBox live and others) already supports a better, free voice codec from Xiph called Speex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellymoser_Asao_Codec Also, there are already Open Source versions of VP6 in use by folks such as Google/Youtube. More importantly, addressing the real issue, releasing any/all of the modern VP codecs royalty free will destroy both Silverlight and Flash. Regarding your tweet there, On2 don’t own the Nellymoser codec, and Flash 10 (as well as XBox live and others) already supports a better, free voice codec from Xiph called Speex:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellymoser_Asao_Codec

Also, there are already Open Source versions of VP6 in use by folks such as Google/Youtube.

More importantly, addressing the real issue, releasing any/all of the modern VP codecs royalty free will destroy both Silverlight and Flash.

]]> By: idio http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-buying-on2-new-twist-in-the-hope-for-open-video/comment-page-1#comment-274907 idio Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:47:59 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=7211#comment-274907 Is there anything to support the notion that google plans to open-source this? What would be the advantage to Google? Are you saying they would open-source the codec, promise they won't enforce any patents involved in the codec, and give this to the HTML5 WG? (this would seem to me to not be a viable solution, as the WG was already given an open-source codec which Apple rejected because of "patent concerns". Possibly a big organization like google behind a codec could help... who knows) Or is this just wishful thinking? Is there anything to support the notion that google plans to open-source this? What would be the advantage to Google? Are you saying they would open-source the codec, promise they won’t enforce any patents involved in the codec, and give this to the HTML5 WG? (this would seem to me to not be a viable solution, as the WG was already given an open-source codec which Apple rejected because of “patent concerns”. Possibly a big organization like google behind a codec could help… who knows)

Or is this just wishful thinking?

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