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	<title>Comments on: Google Doctype: Documenting the Open Web</title>
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	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
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		<title>By: cialis</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-doctype-documenting-the-open-web/comment-page-1#comment-269245</link>
		<dc:creator>cialis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3650#comment-269245</guid>
		<description>Great peice thanks
Intresting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great peice thanks<br />
Intresting.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Remedies</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-doctype-documenting-the-open-web/comment-page-1#comment-269225</link>
		<dc:creator>Remedies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3650#comment-269225</guid>
		<description>Great peice thanks
Intresting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great peice thanks<br />
Intresting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GregWolejko</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-doctype-documenting-the-open-web/comment-page-1#comment-263912</link>
		<dc:creator>GregWolejko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 13:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3650#comment-263912</guid>
		<description>Google Doctype sure seems like a great initiative but for now it is lacking good quality content. 

The only part that I&#039;ve found to be useful and worth reading are security howtos that are actually quite good. Besides that Doctype has lot of catching up to do. 

Still, great idea and a challenge for community I think</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google Doctype sure seems like a great initiative but for now it is lacking good quality content. </p>
<p>The only part that I&#8217;ve found to be useful and worth reading are security howtos that are actually quite good. Besides that Doctype has lot of catching up to do. </p>
<p>Still, great idea and a challenge for community I think</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cromwellian</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-doctype-documenting-the-open-web/comment-page-1#comment-263873</link>
		<dc:creator>cromwellian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 17:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3650#comment-263873</guid>
		<description>Google must have an internal JS compiler to remove bloat. Take a look at the source, there is reference to if(!COMPILED) a bunch of times, as well as talk about command line parameters to the compiler.  Also, notice how alot of the method names have suffixes? I would bet that they use an internal naming scheme to somehow specify private vs public symbols. A private symbol is one that can be removed if it is not used, and can be obfuscated. A public would be one that can&#039;t be removed because you don&#039;t know who is going to call it, and you can&#039;t rename/obfuscate it either. 

This is one of the ways JS developers can approach the way GWT works. You invent a new DSL, call it JS++, where you adhere to a certain idiomatic naming scheme, package scheme, etc. You might even use JSDoc to declare types.  Then, you build a bunch of command line tools to process the JS based on required idioms, and as long as people adhere to the idioms, you can aggressively optimize and package the JS.

Much of the perceived &quot;bloat&quot; is probably due to maintaining idiomatic format for everything. For example, if they were to use other techniques like defining methods by looping over an array (e.g.  [&quot;foo&quot;, &quot;bar&quot;, &quot;baz&quot;].each(function(name) { window[name] = ... } ) as some JS libraries do, it would totally break assumptions that a compiler makes.

I would bet that Google&#039;s JS library in practice produces smaller code downloaded than most of the JS libraries on the internet which use open source packers/minifiers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google must have an internal JS compiler to remove bloat. Take a look at the source, there is reference to if(!COMPILED) a bunch of times, as well as talk about command line parameters to the compiler.  Also, notice how alot of the method names have suffixes? I would bet that they use an internal naming scheme to somehow specify private vs public symbols. A private symbol is one that can be removed if it is not used, and can be obfuscated. A public would be one that can&#8217;t be removed because you don&#8217;t know who is going to call it, and you can&#8217;t rename/obfuscate it either. </p>
<p>This is one of the ways JS developers can approach the way GWT works. You invent a new DSL, call it JS++, where you adhere to a certain idiomatic naming scheme, package scheme, etc. You might even use JSDoc to declare types.  Then, you build a bunch of command line tools to process the JS based on required idioms, and as long as people adhere to the idioms, you can aggressively optimize and package the JS.</p>
<p>Much of the perceived &#8220;bloat&#8221; is probably due to maintaining idiomatic format for everything. For example, if they were to use other techniques like defining methods by looping over an array (e.g.  ["foo", "bar", "baz"].each(function(name) { window[name] = &#8230; } ) as some JS libraries do, it would totally break assumptions that a compiler makes.</p>
<p>I would bet that Google&#8217;s JS library in practice produces smaller code downloaded than most of the JS libraries on the internet which use open source packers/minifiers.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-doctype-documenting-the-open-web/comment-page-1#comment-263857</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 08:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3650#comment-263857</guid>
		<description>The goog js library is conceptually pretty clean, but it certainly is bloated. I think somewhere along the development path they forgot they were developing for the web. Big libraries don&#039;t serve fast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The goog js library is conceptually pretty clean, but it certainly is bloated. I think somewhere along the development path they forgot they were developing for the web. Big libraries don&#8217;t serve fast.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mundizzle</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-doctype-documenting-the-open-web/comment-page-1#comment-263846</link>
		<dc:creator>mundizzle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 00:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3650#comment-263846</guid>
		<description>wow, &quot;goog&quot; JS library. 

wonder if anyone will be able to contribute code or just googlers (like in YUI). will they have widgets or just stick to the low level stuff?

http://doctype.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/goog/
http://simonwillison.net/2008/May/14/revision/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, &#8220;goog&#8221; JS library. </p>
<p>wonder if anyone will be able to contribute code or just googlers (like in YUI). will they have widgets or just stick to the low level stuff?</p>
<p><a href="http://doctype.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/goog/" rel="nofollow">http://doctype.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/goog/</a><br />
<a href="http://simonwillison.net/2008/May/14/revision/" rel="nofollow">http://simonwillison.net/2008/May/14/revision/</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cromwellian</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-doctype-documenting-the-open-web/comment-page-1#comment-263843</link>
		<dc:creator>cromwellian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3650#comment-263843</guid>
		<description>Implemented in GWT! :) (look at Firebug, tell tale .cache.html files)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Implemented in GWT! :) (look at Firebug, tell tale .cache.html files)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rdworth</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/google-doctype-documenting-the-open-web/comment-page-1#comment-263813</link>
		<dc:creator>rdworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 21:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What a wealth already. And it looks like it&#039;s got all that it needs to grow: it&#039;s wide open. Way to go Mark!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a wealth already. And it looks like it&#8217;s got all that it needs to grow: it&#8217;s wide open. Way to go Mark!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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