Comments on: IE 7: One year later, and no infomation on 8 http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8 Cleaning up the web with Ajax Thu, 17 May 2012 07:43:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Bundyo http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259702 Bundyo Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:10:24 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259702 I sure hope the layout engine of the future is not that of Outlook 2007... But i always had a grim vision of the said future... Microsoft won't announce new browser at least for 6 months. After that they will come up with IE8 + Silverlight 2 + ES3.1 + CSS (look we can render Acid 2). But IE6 will remain because Vista is not very well adopted and XP comes with preinstalled IE6... I sure hope the layout engine of the future is not that of Outlook 2007…

But i always had a grim vision of the said future… Microsoft won’t announce new browser at least for 6 months. After that they will come up with IE8 + Silverlight 2 + ES3.1 + CSS (look we can render Acid 2). But IE6 will remain because Vista is not very well adopted and XP comes with preinstalled IE6…

]]> By: Sam http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259700 Sam Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:04:52 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259700 The IE Team's comments explain SO much about what has happened with IE7. Their comments centered almost entirely on security issues. So THAT'S what they were doing. They certainly weren't bringing their browser up to standards. Or implementing all the conventions that Firefox has helped to firmly establish in the Internet community (outside of Tabbed browsing). And they weren't focused on usability, either. I've seen almost every new user to IE7 search fruitlessly for the refresh button. It's clear, at least to me, that IE7 was a half-hearted attempt to look like the team was trying to catch up to Firefox's functionality. But in reality it was an overhaul to fix the security issues of IE6. If IE7 were really any good, don't you think it would've surpassed IE6 by now? And what if the IT departments at these major corporations decided to switch to Safari or Opera or Firefox? One has to wonder how much the elephants in the IT department are inflating the numbers of Microsoft usage across the spectrum. The IE Team’s comments explain SO much about what has happened with IE7. Their comments centered almost entirely on security issues.

So THAT’S what they were doing.

They certainly weren’t bringing their browser up to standards. Or implementing all the conventions that Firefox has helped to firmly establish in the Internet community (outside of Tabbed browsing).

And they weren’t focused on usability, either. I’ve seen almost every new user to IE7 search fruitlessly for the refresh button.

It’s clear, at least to me, that IE7 was a half-hearted attempt to look like the team was trying to catch up to Firefox’s functionality. But in reality it was an overhaul to fix the security issues of IE6.

If IE7 were really any good, don’t you think it would’ve surpassed IE6 by now? And what if the IT departments at these major corporations decided to switch to Safari or Opera or Firefox?

One has to wonder how much the elephants in the IT department are inflating the numbers of Microsoft usage across the spectrum.

]]> By: GalloNero http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259669 GalloNero Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:27:51 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259669 I have to agree with @Leo Lipelis. Interesting article here : What If They Gave a Browser War and Microsoft Never Came? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001006.html I have to agree with @Leo Lipelis.

Interesting article here :

What If They Gave a Browser War and Microsoft Never Came?
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001006.html

]]> By: Bertrand Le Roy http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259668 Bertrand Le Roy Wed, 05 Dec 2007 08:20:45 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259668 Sure: http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/default.aspx Sure: http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/default.aspx

]]> By: Viktor Kojouharov http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259667 Viktor Kojouharov Wed, 05 Dec 2007 07:53:13 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259667 @Bertrand, do provide a link to this free debugger @Bertrand, do provide a link to this free debugger

]]> By: Bertrand Le Roy http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259664 Bertrand Le Roy Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:36:06 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259664 Vance: no debugging tool for IE? There's been a debugger forever and Visual Studio 2008 (which has a free version that includes the JS debugger) does pretty well. Vance: no debugging tool for IE? There’s been a debugger forever and Visual Studio 2008 (which has a free version that includes the JS debugger) does pretty well.

]]> By: vance Dubberly http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259662 vance Dubberly Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:19:02 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259662 I wish they would just stop and go away forever. With the resources Microsoft has at it's disposal there is no explanation other than ill intent for the problems with Internet Explorer. They are the largest Software company in the world and produce the absolute worst browser in the world, and not but small margin. IE 7 brought IE up the quality of Firefox 1 or Safari 2. I just spent 6 weeks programming a very robust Javascript application and 2 weeks of it was spent debugging Internet Explorer. Which has no useful debugging tool! I wish they would just stop and go away forever. With the resources Microsoft has at it’s disposal there is no explanation other than ill intent for the problems with Internet Explorer. They are the largest Software company in the world and produce the absolute worst browser in the world, and not but small margin. IE 7 brought IE up the quality of Firefox 1 or Safari 2. I just spent 6 weeks programming a very robust Javascript application and 2 weeks of it was spent debugging Internet Explorer. Which has no useful debugging tool!

]]> By: mare http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259661 mare Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:42:50 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259661 Imagine having new IE version every 9 months.... Imagine having a new bag of random incompatibilities every 9 months. So, two years from now, you'll be creating your js/css code with patches for IE6-IE10. Damn.... Imagine having new IE version every 9 months…. Imagine having a new bag of random incompatibilities every 9 months. So, two years from now, you’ll be creating your js/css code with patches for IE6-IE10. Damn….

]]> By: Leo Lipelis http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259660 Leo Lipelis Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:41:32 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259660 I am certain that IE 8, if it does come out at all, is going to be terrible, or at best, very underwhelming, just like IE 7. -- It is in Microsoft's interest to promote a good OS-independent web environment, but they don't see that because they still think as a greedy and insane monopolist looking for a good next quarter return. As long as they keep doing that, their collapse is assured. -- Microsoft has no faith in its own ability. This is why they believe they must continue to chain people to the platform. They believe if they competed as an equal in an impartial space they'd lose. If they totally believed in their technical superiority, they would believe they could dominate an open and impartial application space without a problem. But they don't believe that. -- Firefox, Webkit and Opera will be the ones to move the web platform forward. Microsoft IE is irrelevant. I am certain that IE 8, if it does come out at all, is going to be terrible, or at best, very underwhelming, just like IE 7.
–
It is in Microsoft’s interest to promote a good OS-independent web environment, but they don’t see that because they still think as a greedy and insane monopolist looking for a good next quarter return. As long as they keep doing that, their collapse is assured.
–
Microsoft has no faith in its own ability. This is why they believe they must continue to chain people to the platform. They believe if they competed as an equal in an impartial space they’d lose. If they totally believed in their technical superiority, they would believe they could dominate an open and impartial application space without a problem. But they don’t believe that.
–
Firefox, Webkit and Opera will be the ones to move the web platform forward. Microsoft IE is irrelevant.

]]> By: Scriptor http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259657 Scriptor Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:21:44 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259657 First of all, that article has some of the most useless crap I have ever read. It <i>better</i> be safer and have fewer vulnerabilities than the previous versions. Also, I agree with DDuarte, Microsoft just doesn't want to admit yet that it won't fully support EcmaScript 4 specifications. They know they'd catch hell for it, so they'll just play it quiet till then. Also, I doubt anything they say now will reflect accurately in the final product. IE7 was just a catch-up shenanigan, done in a rush. With Apple and Mozilla going along very well with their browsers, I suspect Microsoft will once again procrastinate and come up with another below-standard product. First of all, that article has some of the most useless crap I have ever read. It better be safer and have fewer vulnerabilities than the previous versions. Also, I agree with DDuarte, Microsoft just doesn’t want to admit yet that it won’t fully support EcmaScript 4 specifications. They know they’d catch hell for it, so they’ll just play it quiet till then.
Also, I doubt anything they say now will reflect accurately in the final product. IE7 was just a catch-up shenanigan, done in a rush. With Apple and Mozilla going along very well with their browsers, I suspect Microsoft will once again procrastinate and come up with another below-standard product.

]]> By: Andy Kant http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259653 Andy Kant Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:51:26 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259653 @Viktor That's a bit harsh. Microsoft has some of the best engineers around and I'm sure that the IE team is no exception. Would it be nice to hear some news on IE8? Yeah, of course. IE7 ain't so bad though, its definitely a leap beyond IE6. If the delay of IE8 info is due to the rumored C# script, I sure wouldn't mind (C# is one of the big reasons that I prefer my Windows machine to my MacBook Pro). @Viktor
That’s a bit harsh. Microsoft has some of the best engineers around and I’m sure that the IE team is no exception.

Would it be nice to hear some news on IE8? Yeah, of course. IE7 ain’t so bad though, its definitely a leap beyond IE6. If the delay of IE8 info is due to the rumored C# script, I sure wouldn’t mind (C# is one of the big reasons that I prefer my Windows machine to my MacBook Pro).

]]> By: Jon Davis http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259652 Jon Davis Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:49:05 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259652 "One of these two [layout engines] should be the foundation on which to build a new layout engine." Sorry, I meant one of these two layout engines should be the foundation on which to build a new web browser layout engine for Internet Explorer. “One of these two [layout engines] should be the foundation on which to build a new layout engine.”

Sorry, I meant one of these two layout engines should be the foundation on which to build a new web browser layout engine for Internet Explorer.

]]> By: Jon Davis http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259651 Jon Davis Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:47:55 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259651 I know for a fact that, several years ago, the Trident team left the Internet Explorer project and moved to the WPF team. Some of them, I assume, split off and "rewrote" WPF in what we know today as Silverlight. Meanwhile, the Expression Web WYSIWYG editor no longer uses the Trident layout engine that FrontPage used to use. It uses a brand spanking new layout engine. One of these two should be the foundation on which to build a new layout engine. So who's it going to be? Expression Web's layout engine, or Silverlight? Expression Web already speaks HTML. Silverlight already speaks Ruby and Python (and Javascript and C#). Neither of them, to my knowledge, support IFRAMEs, framesets, ActiveX objects / plug-ins, Java applets. I know for a fact that, several years ago, the Trident team left the Internet Explorer project and moved to the WPF team. Some of them, I assume, split off and “rewrote” WPF in what we know today as Silverlight.

Meanwhile, the Expression Web WYSIWYG editor no longer uses the Trident layout engine that FrontPage used to use. It uses a brand spanking new layout engine.

One of these two should be the foundation on which to build a new layout engine. So who’s it going to be? Expression Web’s layout engine, or Silverlight? Expression Web already speaks HTML. Silverlight already speaks Ruby and Python (and Javascript and C#). Neither of them, to my knowledge, support IFRAMEs, framesets, ActiveX objects / plug-ins, Java applets.

]]> By: helimeef http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259649 helimeef Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:24:12 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259649 Darn Ajaxian making me register now. Anyways, here's the fix for IE7; make the IE7 installer the Firefox and/or Opera installer. Everyone will be happy. On a side note, I just registered; why on Earth do I need to answer the spam question?! Darn Ajaxian making me register now.
Anyways, here’s the fix for IE7; make the IE7 installer the Firefox and/or Opera installer.
Everyone will be happy.

On a side note, I just registered; why on Earth do I need to answer the spam question?!

]]> By: Schill http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259647 Schill Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:59:23 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259647 I'm willing to bet the IE 8 team is comprised of human beings however, too (and maybe a few robots, but hey) - who have feelings as well. Thanks to the diggoblogosphere I think it's been made fairly clear what developers would like to see as far as standards support and features etc., but a concerted "wish list" certainly wouldn't hurt. One annoyance I've seen with IE 7 is that rendering of 24-bit PNGs with alpha transparency seems to break when the PNG is a background image, and CSS opacity is also applied to that element. The alpha bits become a solid black colour when CSS opacity is applied, if my memory serves correct. Anyways, I think with the release of Safari 3 and Firefox 3 presumably coming soon (render/redraw performance on both are quite impressive, by the way,) MS certainly has some stiff competition for browser marketshare. I’m willing to bet the IE 8 team is comprised of human beings however, too (and maybe a few robots, but hey) – who have feelings as well. Thanks to the diggoblogosphere I think it’s been made fairly clear what developers would like to see as far as standards support and features etc., but a concerted “wish list” certainly wouldn’t hurt.

One annoyance I’ve seen with IE 7 is that rendering of 24-bit PNGs with alpha transparency seems to break when the PNG is a background image, and CSS opacity is also applied to that element. The alpha bits become a solid black colour when CSS opacity is applied, if my memory serves correct.

Anyways, I think with the release of Safari 3 and Firefox 3 presumably coming soon (render/redraw performance on both are quite impressive, by the way,) MS certainly has some stiff competition for browser marketshare.

]]> By: Viktor Kojouharov http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259645 Viktor Kojouharov Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:21:30 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259645 @Jon, We aren't gonna get any of those things with IE8. Do you honestly believe that the so called IE Team actually does any coding work, or if it does, is competent in any way? IMHO, that team is irrelevant, unfortunately, their product isn't. @Jon, We aren’t gonna get any of those things with IE8. Do you honestly believe that the so called IE Team actually does any coding work, or if it does, is competent in any way? IMHO, that team is irrelevant, unfortunately, their product isn’t.

]]> By: Magnus http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259643 Magnus Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:49:30 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259643 I'm guessing they wont announce anything about IE8 until Mix'08 I’m guessing they wont announce anything about IE8 until Mix’08

]]> By: Jon Hartmann http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259642 Jon Hartmann Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:38:10 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259642 I can think of at least one good reason to look for IE8, and that is precisely why you are saying not to look for it... IE7 isn't what we were hoping for as developers. We can't get a faster JS engine, better CSS support and all that jazz without another version. I can think of at least one good reason to look for IE8, and that is precisely why you are saying not to look for it… IE7 isn’t what we were hoping for as developers. We can’t get a faster JS engine, better CSS support and all that jazz without another version.

]]> By: getter http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259639 getter Tue, 04 Dec 2007 13:53:27 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259639 Who cares about IE7? Will they stop supporting the crippled IE6 so that the web ui design moves into the new millenium? IE6 is still the #1 browser and the #1 reason why we have to put with aging ui! Who cares about IE7?

Will they stop supporting the crippled IE6 so that the web ui design moves into the new millenium? IE6 is still the #1 browser and the #1 reason why we have to put with aging ui!

]]> By: Shahid Shah http://ajaxian.com/archives/ie-7-one-year-later-and-no-infomation-on-8/comment-page-1#comment-259637 Shahid Shah Tue, 04 Dec 2007 13:29:06 +0000 http://ajaxian.com/?p=3073#comment-259637 Do you really care about IE8? There was a lot of hype when IE7 was released, but it was well below expectations. Do you really care about IE8? There was a lot of hype when IE7 was released, but it was well below expectations.

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