Comments on: Microsoft to help move Canvas 2D API out of HTML5 spec?

By: mjuhl

mjuhl — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:08:42 +0000

Ad nauseam…. blah blah blah. . .

Anything that can be done to push forward the HTML5 spec at this point is a good thing. Canvas isn’t the solution to all our problems anyway.

By: granata

granata — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:06:56 +0000

Yes, yes IE sucks, Microsoft sucks. Safari rocks, Apple rocks, Google rocks, PHP rocks, .NET sucks…
It’s getting really boring hearing this stuff all the time.

By: jhuni

jhuni — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:13:51 +0000

Since Apple helped create Canvas, we most do everything we can to stop it! That is probably the mentality they have over at Microsoft.

By: codedread

codedread — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:09:01 +0000

Wow, when did Ajaxian become Slashdot?

By: CaptainN

CaptainN — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:32:03 +0000

It’s obvious. They don’t want it in the HTML5 spec because then they can’t claim support for HTML5 – if they take it out they can. They will never implement canvas. They are hostile to the technology, and this is an attack.

By: mdmadph

mdmadph — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:55:48 +0000

@sixtyseconds is dead on. This is so that Microsoft (which is NEVER going to support Canvas while Apple (I think) holds the patent) can claim to be “HTML5-compliant” in their next release.

By: Breton

Breton — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:51:34 +0000

Okay, having actually read the mailing list posts, I’ve got this all wrong, and so have a few others. It is not microsoft that has proposed to move the canvas api out of html5. They are simply concurring with others (including Maciej Stochowak, an apple representative- remember apple originated the canvas tag) And offering editorial help. That act in itself may be suspicious, but it’s still incorrect to believe that microsoft originated the idea.

By: Breton

Breton — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:00:52 +0000

“With all my distrust to Microsoft, I should admit that Canvas not belong to HTML 5 and deserves its own spec.”

Agreed to an extent. It is perfectly well applicable to non Browser JS applications as well. Though I’m rather suspicious of this move, and would prefer canvas to stay in html5 if it means that it gets implemented in IE.

By: DmitryBaranovskiy

DmitryBaranovskiy — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:03:12 +0000

With all my distrust to Microsoft, I should admit that Canvas not belong to HTML 5 and deserves its own spec.

By: rdza

rdza — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:42:50 +0000

@sixtyseconds hit the nail on the head. More M$ marketrolling to weaken the HTML5 position.

By: codedread

codedread — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:04:59 +0000

@JonathanLeech – while I really respect Alex and think Abbra is kick-ass, it’s not the most standards-compliant implementation of SVG in a browser. It does not support all of the SVG DOM 1.1 for one thing (Alex has stated he is targeting SVGT 1.2 and has a hybrid between the two DOMs).

I’m pretty certain that Microsoft has their own kickass implementation of SVG they’re getting ready – and today makes me think they have a Canvas implementation too.

By: ThomasAPowell

ThomasAPowell — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:47:27 +0000

Here’s a thought. Microsoft wants to be HTML 5 compliant in IE 9 (or 8.5) but isn’t going to be able (or maybe want) to get implemented, so….let’s move it out of the spec and problem solved. HTML 5 compatibility as that isn’t part of the main spec anymore. Not liking to be cynical but that is just as likely a reason as any. Rather it be they are really getting behind that would be a wonderful change.

By: JonathanLeech

JonathanLeech — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:04:21 +0000

I thought the point of the Canvas spec was a developer who had never touched a computer before in his life could implement it in a day in VB.

What exactly is Microsoft’s excuse for not having done it yet? The skeptic in me agrees with the other conspiracy theory posts – MS wants it out of HTML 5 and will never implement it as it competes with Silverlight.

As for SVG, MS should just license / acquire Abbra and be done with it – and have the most complete SVG implementation of any browser, by far. They could have SVG in IE today if they were motivated.

By: gossi

gossi — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:35:16 +0000

Actually, am I the only optimist here, assuming Microsoft cut catapult their browser back into the game with ie9? A standards-compatible browser? *dream*. I think its MS major (and only? – others are thin!) chance to get back into the game and fill the gap they’ll opened up themself.
Even though I still believe there are strategies ms follows on their own, so my concerns are the same as @sixtyseconds.
If MS fails with IE9, I stick to @Joeri “giving up on IE ever being a modern browser”.

By: tj111

tj111 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:15:51 +0000

sixtyseconds:
Am I the only one thinking that the reason they want to move Canvas 2D out of the HTML5 spec is so that they can claim to support HTML5 fully, while not having to bother supporting Canvas 2D?

Development of IE9 begins.
Canvas moved out of a maturing HTML5 spec.
HTML5 spec complete without Canvas.
IE9 feature locked.
Canvas spec complete.

This is exactly what I came here to post. I think until Microsoft proves that they are indeed working on implementing canvas into their products, they shouldn’t have a say in it’s details. It seems like a ploy to “fully support html5″ while still being able to push silverlight over canvas/svg. While maybe they are doing this for the good of the web, I won’t believe it until I see more proof.

By: zachleat

zachleat — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:17:36 +0000

My gut is telling me to agree with @sixtyseconds. Is this part of a long term strategy to further Silverlight adoption?

By: d4rkl1gh7

d4rkl1gh7 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:34:41 +0000

I’m an artist/developer so a good deal of code I write is deals with graphics. I also happen to be disabled so the ‘accessibility’ issue caught my eye. I also have experience with Mac/iPhone and Java programming and am familiar with others here and there and I have NEVER run across any way to make a drawing surface compliant for accessibility. This is just a tactic to stall HTML 5 because…..well……its MS.

By: johanandre

johanandre — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:11:49 +0000

IE has been around for a long time and always created it’s own standards. In the beginning that did not bother anyone because we did’nt have alot to compare with.

Today, when theres Chrome, Firefox, Safari and Opera there is no need for IE. Why do they even continue to develop it? It’s pretty obvious that they have no clue when it comes to dealing with web browsers.

Of course IE8 is not all bad if you compare to a browser released in 2005. Poor javascript-engine and poor CSS support (not even implements css2 correctly).

Is it so important to ship your own browser with your OS?
I know, Apple does the same thing, but they got a good browser based on a good engine (which constantly implements new features).

So, Microsoft, step down and kill IE. If you guys don’t do it, people will, it just takes a little bit longer.

By: Amtiskaw

Amtiskaw — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:58:33 +0000

I imagine the intention is to wrestle at least some of the HTML 5 spec out of Ian Hickson (and thus Google)’s megalomaniacal grip. Of course, whether it’s better off in Microsoft’s megalomaniacal grip is up for debate :-)

By: ozonecreations

ozonecreations — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:12:58 +0000

Whether canvas is part of html5 or its own spec, until it is published as a final specification, the patent is still Apple’s. I seriously doubt that MS will touch canvas until it is part of a published final specification when the patent becomes fully owned by the w3c.