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	<title>Comments on: Mozilla 2: JIT JVM and much more</title>
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	<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more</link>
	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:55:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Brendan Eich</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-133557</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan Eich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-133557</guid>
		<description>Hi, a few quick comments:

 Scot is right: JSVM, not JVM.

 Firefox is &quot;just&quot; a browser, not an operating system.  There is no way to fit megabytes of extra VM and programming language support into it, just because someone might prefer to use another language such as Python.

 Ajax developers generally want to code for multiple browsers without writing twice the code, so they&#039;ll write in JS (or a language that compiles to JS, e.g. OpenLaszlo).  They won&#039;t write once in Python (e.g.) for Firefox, and rewrite in JS for IE and Safari.

 Anyway, Firefox will support Python as an alternative scripting language for XUL extensions, and the Mozilla platform will support it for XUL applications, in a future release -- but &lt;b&gt;only if&lt;/b&gt; you arrange for the right version of the CPython runtime to be available.  You can try this Python support out on the Mozilla &quot;trunk&quot; now.

 Cap&#039;n JSVM points the way, although we can&#039;t use Lua specifically.  The focus will be on tight code for fast JS and DOM execution, with JITted calls directly into the DOM methods where possible.

/be</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, a few quick comments:</p>
<p> Scot is right: JSVM, not JVM.</p>
<p> Firefox is &#8220;just&#8221; a browser, not an operating system.  There is no way to fit megabytes of extra VM and programming language support into it, just because someone might prefer to use another language such as Python.</p>
<p> Ajax developers generally want to code for multiple browsers without writing twice the code, so they&#8217;ll write in JS (or a language that compiles to JS, e.g. OpenLaszlo).  They won&#8217;t write once in Python (e.g.) for Firefox, and rewrite in JS for IE and Safari.</p>
<p> Anyway, Firefox will support Python as an alternative scripting language for XUL extensions, and the Mozilla platform will support it for XUL applications, in a future release &#8212; but <b>only if</b> you arrange for the right version of the CPython runtime to be available.  You can try this Python support out on the Mozilla &#8220;trunk&#8221; now.</p>
<p> Cap&#8217;n JSVM points the way, although we can&#8217;t use Lua specifically.  The focus will be on tight code for fast JS and DOM execution, with JITted calls directly into the DOM methods where possible.</p>
<p>/be</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: æœ¬æ—¥æ›¸ç±¤ &#171; penk - Keep on rockin&#8217; in the free world</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-132806</link>
		<dc:creator>æœ¬æ—¥æ›¸ç±¤ &#171; penk - Keep on rockin&#8217; in the free world</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-132806</guid>
		<description>[...] http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more" rel="nofollow">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-131141</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-131141</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;And we can JIT calls directly into DOM glue code entry points (provided no JS mutation has overridden a method property value)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Aspect oreinted JS? Is that correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite=""><p>And we can JIT calls directly into DOM glue code entry points (provided no JS mutation has overridden a method property value)</p></blockquote>
<p>Aspect oreinted JS? Is that correct?</p>
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		<title>By: Cap'n JSVM</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-131014</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap'n JSVM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-131014</guid>
		<description>The new jitting JSVM proposal is very welcome news. 
I can attest to the fact that my AJAX apps are 99% constrained by DOM node creation and rendering speed. When it takes 5+ seconds for the browser to build and render a 20 column table with 2000 rows on a 2GHz machine when only 0.2 seconds is spent on network data transfer latency - that&#039;s just sad. 
As far as the Parrot VM goes - why would Mozilla use a huge monolithic VM that even Perl6 is unable to tame after 5 years? A much better VM model to mimic would be the ultra-lightweight and fast Lua VM + LuaJIT, or Neko&#039;s jitting VM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The new jitting JSVM proposal is very welcome news.<br />
I can attest to the fact that my AJAX apps are 99% constrained by DOM node creation and rendering speed. When it takes 5+ seconds for the browser to build and render a 20 column table with 2000 rows on a 2GHz machine when only 0.2 seconds is spent on network data transfer latency &#8211; that&#8217;s just sad.<br />
As far as the Parrot VM goes &#8211; why would Mozilla use a huge monolithic VM that even Perl6 is unable to tame after 5 years? A much better VM model to mimic would be the ultra-lightweight and fast Lua VM + LuaJIT, or Neko&#8217;s jitting VM.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Kuhnert</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-130042</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Kuhnert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 00:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-130042</guid>
		<description>carmen: Ummm.. Not sure where you think it won&#039;t be speed up by a few notches but it most definitely will. Moving the dom operations into a friendlier vm space will be ~huge~ for all kinds of operations. Most of them having to do with UI speed and not &quot;network&quot; speed. 

P.S., Last time I looked at the source I thought I already saw a python extension for mozilla. Maybe you need to go look again ? =p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>carmen: Ummm.. Not sure where you think it won&#8217;t be speed up by a few notches but it most definitely will. Moving the dom operations into a friendlier vm space will be ~huge~ for all kinds of operations. Most of them having to do with UI speed and not &#8220;network&#8221; speed. </p>
<p>P.S., Last time I looked at the source I thought I already saw a python extension for mozilla. Maybe you need to go look again ? =p</p>
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		<title>By: carmen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-129596</link>
		<dc:creator>carmen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 18:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-129596</guid>
		<description>this will not &#039;speed up AJAX by a notch or three&#039;, as it is obviously bound by network and server latency, not heavy clientside processing.


this sounds pretty disappointing to me, i would much rather see a language-agnostic VM like Parrot added to the browser, so one can use appropriately-sandboxed python or ruby clientside, as opposed to waiting another 5 years for all the ECMA members to reinvent the wheel to their standards..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this will not &#8216;speed up AJAX by a notch or three&#8217;, as it is obviously bound by network and server latency, not heavy clientside processing.</p>
<p>this sounds pretty disappointing to me, i would much rather see a language-agnostic VM like Parrot added to the browser, so one can use appropriately-sandboxed python or ruby clientside, as opposed to waiting another 5 years for all the ECMA members to reinvent the wheel to their standards..</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: kourge</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-129460</link>
		<dc:creator>kourge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-129460</guid>
		<description>&quot;Mozilla&quot; 2 refers to the platform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mozilla&#8221; 2 refers to the platform.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-129347</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-129347</guid>
		<description>Dion is writing about *Mozilla* 2, not Firefox 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dion is writing about *Mozilla* 2, not Firefox 2.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Paradise Pete</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-129320</link>
		<dc:creator>Paradise Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-129320</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Firefox 2 is available in its nightly build already from quite some time&lt;/i&gt;
FireFox 2 != Mozilla 2. Except for the 2 part. FTFA: &quot;First, we should do Mozilla 2, targeting 2008&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Firefox 2 is available in its nightly build already from quite some time</i><br />
FireFox 2 != Mozilla 2. Except for the 2 part. FTFA: &#8220;First, we should do Mozilla 2, targeting 2008&#8243;</p>
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		<title>By: Scot</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-129192</link>
		<dc:creator>Scot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 09:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-129192</guid>
		<description>Instead of JVM shouldn&#039;t it be called something like JsVM? JVM is already taken by a well known technology :-). And seeing as how at the start of most, possibly all, Javascript books is a note on how &quot;Javascript is not Java&quot; then calling the Javascript VM a JVM will just lead to confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of JVM shouldn&#8217;t it be called something like JsVM? JVM is already taken by a well known technology :-). And seeing as how at the start of most, possibly all, Javascript books is a note on how &#8220;Javascript is not Java&#8221; then calling the Javascript VM a JVM will just lead to confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Google Logs</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more/comment-page-1#comment-129034</link>
		<dc:creator>Google Logs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 07:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/archives/mozilla-2-jit-jvm-and-much-more#comment-129034</guid>
		<description>Firefox 2 is available in its nightly build already from quite some time</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firefox 2 is available in its nightly build already from quite some time</p>
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