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	<title>Comments on: New Release of Gaia Ajax Widgets</title>
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	<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets</link>
	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
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		<title>By: djhurricane</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-260662</link>
		<dc:creator>djhurricane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-260662</guid>
		<description>I am a web developer on a small team that supports a bunch of civil engineers and some other scientists.  We are currently looking at a bunch of frameworks to help us complete an employee portal.  Gaia has been a godsend so far.  Most of the people in our organization use Mac OSX or some other type of UNIX OS and it has been an uphill battle for me coming in with an ASP.NET background.  While I like .NET, we simply can&#039;t use Windows alone here.  Not only that, toolsets like Telerik are almost four times as expensive, require twice as much work and won&#039;t work with anything but Visual Studio.  I applaud the Gaia team for supporting Mono so that the rest of us won&#039;t be left out.  I don&#039;t have much time but I have to say one more thing--developers aren&#039;t worth their pay in my book if they can&#039;t put their feelings aside and not try to pound a square peg into every round hole.  Gaia will be my recommendation to my boss next week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a web developer on a small team that supports a bunch of civil engineers and some other scientists.  We are currently looking at a bunch of frameworks to help us complete an employee portal.  Gaia has been a godsend so far.  Most of the people in our organization use Mac OSX or some other type of UNIX OS and it has been an uphill battle for me coming in with an ASP.NET background.  While I like .NET, we simply can&#8217;t use Windows alone here.  Not only that, toolsets like Telerik are almost four times as expensive, require twice as much work and won&#8217;t work with anything but Visual Studio.  I applaud the Gaia team for supporting Mono so that the rest of us won&#8217;t be left out.  I don&#8217;t have much time but I have to say one more thing&#8211;developers aren&#8217;t worth their pay in my book if they can&#8217;t put their feelings aside and not try to pound a square peg into every round hole.  Gaia will be my recommendation to my boss next week.</p>
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		<title>By: koreanplywood</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-260281</link>
		<dc:creator>koreanplywood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 13:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-260281</guid>
		<description>4 times as much as â€œtraditionalâ€ software meaning some way down the line peopleâ€™s attention and understanding</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4 times as much as â€œtraditionalâ€ software meaning some way down the line peopleâ€™s attention and understanding</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hansen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259212</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259212</guid>
		<description>@Michael
The advice you&#039;re giving us about sticking to one theme is really brilliant and I think we&#039;ll definitely going to follow that one, I haven&#039;t really thought about it that way. It&#039;s more like we&#039;ve thought about it as &quot;show everything&quot; kind of which obviously creates a lot of confusion... ;)
But instead of showing off flexibility we&#039;ve probably more shown the &quot;lack of consistency&quot;...
About the Drag&#039;n&#039;Drop operations in the &quot;Flakes&quot; sample it&#039;s done as a part of the &quot;client-code&quot; in the codebehind (C#) and we&#039;re basicaly calculating overlap of the top/left corner. If the top/left corner is inside any other window they animates and shift places...
It&#039;s not meant as a complete &quot;PageFlakes&quot; sample, it&#039;s more meant to show of the capability of Gaia!
But I take your hint here too... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael<br />
The advice you&#8217;re giving us about sticking to one theme is really brilliant and I think we&#8217;ll definitely going to follow that one, I haven&#8217;t really thought about it that way. It&#8217;s more like we&#8217;ve thought about it as &#8220;show everything&#8221; kind of which obviously creates a lot of confusion&#8230; ;)<br />
But instead of showing off flexibility we&#8217;ve probably more shown the &#8220;lack of consistency&#8221;&#8230;<br />
About the Drag&#8217;n'Drop operations in the &#8220;Flakes&#8221; sample it&#8217;s done as a part of the &#8220;client-code&#8221; in the codebehind (C#) and we&#8217;re basicaly calculating overlap of the top/left corner. If the top/left corner is inside any other window they animates and shift places&#8230;<br />
It&#8217;s not meant as a complete &#8220;PageFlakes&#8221; sample, it&#8217;s more meant to show of the capability of Gaia!<br />
But I take your hint here too&#8230; ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259209</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259209</guid>
		<description>@ Thomas

There are still probs with the drag and drop :(

If you drag a box to another&#039;s and the headers/title bars perfectly match, they&#039;re not going to switch.

And maybe increase the tolerance a little before switching boxes (you can drag one like barely 10 px into another, and they will switch).


For the arrow, I meant the one that looks like this upside down: ^   :)

As for the themes, I meant perhaps (consider this for your next, eye-candy release :) ) use one constant theme so that all your widgets look like they belong to the same package. Of course, you can have more than one theme, but in this case allow the user to select, and stick with one by default. (pretty much like Ext does) That would really help for users to take your site more seriously.

GL with the project :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Thomas</p>
<p>There are still probs with the drag and drop :(</p>
<p>If you drag a box to another&#8217;s and the headers/title bars perfectly match, they&#8217;re not going to switch.</p>
<p>And maybe increase the tolerance a little before switching boxes (you can drag one like barely 10 px into another, and they will switch).</p>
<p>For the arrow, I meant the one that looks like this upside down: ^   :)</p>
<p>As for the themes, I meant perhaps (consider this for your next, eye-candy release :) ) use one constant theme so that all your widgets look like they belong to the same package. Of course, you can have more than one theme, but in this case allow the user to select, and stick with one by default. (pretty much like Ext does) That would really help for users to take your site more seriously.</p>
<p>GL with the project :)</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hansen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259205</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259205</guid>
		<description>@Joeri
I think you&#039;re 100% correct here, but I think that Open Source (and especially the copylefted version like GPL/LGPL) will get a lot more attention onwards from now. More and more SW companies are using them as the basis for their commercial products. According to Gartner Group FOSS software is growing (in _REVENUE_) 4 times as much as &quot;traditional&quot; software meaning some way down the line people&#039;s attention and understanding of the different licenses will _have_ to increase and more people that illegally uses FOSS software and components will at least _know_ they are doing it. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s many people who are using (L)GPL software illegally today are doing it intentionally :)
But then again I am an optimistic guy who choose to believe in the good of mankind ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Joeri<br />
I think you&#8217;re 100% correct here, but I think that Open Source (and especially the copylefted version like GPL/LGPL) will get a lot more attention onwards from now. More and more SW companies are using them as the basis for their commercial products. According to Gartner Group FOSS software is growing (in _REVENUE_) 4 times as much as &#8220;traditional&#8221; software meaning some way down the line people&#8217;s attention and understanding of the different licenses will _have_ to increase and more people that illegally uses FOSS software and components will at least _know_ they are doing it. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s many people who are using (L)GPL software illegally today are doing it intentionally :)<br />
But then again I am an optimistic guy who choose to believe in the good of mankind ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Joeri</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259203</link>
		<dc:creator>Joeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259203</guid>
		<description>Interesting point about people downloading the GPL version when they really needed a commercial license. I bet the majority of commercial web apps developed on top of Ext, Dojo and so on are not actually using the toolkit in accordance with the license. Sadly, the crime to punishment ratio for that is probably pretty low because the BSA only cares about piracy of fully closed-source software, and the FSF lacks the resources to go after all but the highest profile abusers.

The toolkit itself looks like a nice product. If I was developing in ASP.NET, I would seriously consider using it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting point about people downloading the GPL version when they really needed a commercial license. I bet the majority of commercial web apps developed on top of Ext, Dojo and so on are not actually using the toolkit in accordance with the license. Sadly, the crime to punishment ratio for that is probably pretty low because the BSA only cares about piracy of fully closed-source software, and the FSF lacks the resources to go after all but the highest profile abusers.</p>
<p>The toolkit itself looks like a nice product. If I was developing in ASP.NET, I would seriously consider using it.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hansen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259201</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 10:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259201</guid>
		<description>@Michael
&quot;Try this: Select a box, move it around just a little, then drag it back to like 10 pixels up its original location, then release your mouse. Instead of not moving (like it should because it is closest to its original location than to another element), itâ€™s going to switch with another element.&quot;
Fixed...! :)
http://ajaxwidgets.com/AllControlsSamples/Window-Panes-Parts.aspx
The problem was that our Mac OS X theme is actually a lot larger than &quot;what it appears&quot; to be, I just fixed it by exchanging the Mac OS X theme with our &quot;Light Blue&quot; theme... ;)
The other issues you pinpointed needs a little bit more time to be fixed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael<br />
&#8220;Try this: Select a box, move it around just a little, then drag it back to like 10 pixels up its original location, then release your mouse. Instead of not moving (like it should because it is closest to its original location than to another element), itâ€™s going to switch with another element.&#8221;<br />
Fixed&#8230;! :)<br />
<a href="http://ajaxwidgets.com/AllControlsSamples/Window-Panes-Parts.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://ajaxwidgets.com/AllControlsSamples/Window-Panes-Parts.aspx</a><br />
The problem was that our Mac OS X theme is actually a lot larger than &#8220;what it appears&#8221; to be, I just fixed it by exchanging the Mac OS X theme with our &#8220;Light Blue&#8221; theme&#8230; ;)<br />
The other issues you pinpointed needs a little bit more time to be fixed&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hansen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259200</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 10:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259200</guid>
		<description>@Michael
&quot;And please change that ugly arrow in your date selection widget&quot;
I am working on the samples right now in fact and I thought I&#039;d do this one since it&#039;s a pretty easy one to fix. I am though not sure which of them you mean, we have (sigh!) three different themes on the page and all of them have different themes for the drop down button. Do you mean _all_ of them or just one of them...?
Post a URL or something to the one you mean and I&#039;ll try to fix it (with my limited knowledge of design that is ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael<br />
&#8220;And please change that ugly arrow in your date selection widget&#8221;<br />
I am working on the samples right now in fact and I thought I&#8217;d do this one since it&#8217;s a pretty easy one to fix. I am though not sure which of them you mean, we have (sigh!) three different themes on the page and all of them have different themes for the drop down button. Do you mean _all_ of them or just one of them&#8230;?<br />
Post a URL or something to the one you mean and I&#8217;ll try to fix it (with my limited knowledge of design that is ;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Hansen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259199</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 07:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259199</guid>
		<description>@Rey
Sorry, I just can&#039;t &quot;fix it&quot; when people become &quot;personal&quot; and non-constructive :(
@Scriptor
Thank you ;)
@Michael
Thank you, those are really relevant and constructive criticism that actually helps us out and makes it possible for us to create something better and improve! I&#039;ll add all of those up on our TODO and try to see what we can do to fix them :)
The arrow in the DateTimePicker I could probably even do myself ;)
Regarding the eye-candy parts we know about it and it is a huge problem for us. We just had a process for the redesign of the entire website which went very well (we think that is ;) where we had a new Logo and changed the entire design of the site. As of from now we are focusing a LOT on upgrading the bling parts of the samples and we&#039;re also in discussions with getting help from professional designers and such. (BTW if anybody here knows about great designers with a &quot;development understandment&quot; get them to contact us :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rey<br />
Sorry, I just can&#8217;t &#8220;fix it&#8221; when people become &#8220;personal&#8221; and non-constructive :(<br />
@Scriptor<br />
Thank you ;)<br />
@Michael<br />
Thank you, those are really relevant and constructive criticism that actually helps us out and makes it possible for us to create something better and improve! I&#8217;ll add all of those up on our TODO and try to see what we can do to fix them :)<br />
The arrow in the DateTimePicker I could probably even do myself ;)<br />
Regarding the eye-candy parts we know about it and it is a huge problem for us. We just had a process for the redesign of the entire website which went very well (we think that is ;) where we had a new Logo and changed the entire design of the site. As of from now we are focusing a LOT on upgrading the bling parts of the samples and we&#8217;re also in discussions with getting help from professional designers and such. (BTW if anybody here knows about great designers with a &#8220;development understandment&#8221; get them to contact us :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259193</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259193</guid>
		<description>@Thomas
Coward? I&#039;m sorry I don&#039;t have a website online at the moment. I&#039;m the kind of person that likes to work locally and not get stuff on the web until it works good, you know what I mean?

Even if I had started on the &quot;comparison&quot;, I&#039;m just someone who posts his opinion, and you&#039;re the one who&#039;s trying to sell a product shall I remind you. 

Aside from that, you know you&#039;re not going to attract customers by saying &quot;Soon a top 5 largest site from Norway is going to be using Gaia&quot;. What we want to see is stuff that appeals to our eye, and stuff that works good. 

My criticism mightn&#039;t have been of much help until now, but I have a few suggestions:

- The fisheye widget on your screenshots page, maybe you could improve it so that elements can grow from a center point, rather than staying fixed in the top-left corner and growing from there

- The &quot;Ajax Window Pageflakes&quot; drag and drop behavior should definately be changed imho. The delay is annoying, and it just behaves stupid. Try this: Select a box, move it around just a little, then drag it back to like 10 pixels up its original location, then release your mouse. Instead of not moving (like it should because it is closest to its original location than to another element), it&#039;s going to switch with another element.

- You seriously, really need a constant theme. You can have multiple themes if you want, but allow users to choose their theme or something, but by default please leave a constant theme. Just look at your WYSIWYG editor or the &quot;trigger happy&quot; popup that appears when you view the Pageflakes page.

And please change that ugly arrow in your date selection widget :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Thomas<br />
Coward? I&#8217;m sorry I don&#8217;t have a website online at the moment. I&#8217;m the kind of person that likes to work locally and not get stuff on the web until it works good, you know what I mean?</p>
<p>Even if I had started on the &#8220;comparison&#8221;, I&#8217;m just someone who posts his opinion, and you&#8217;re the one who&#8217;s trying to sell a product shall I remind you. </p>
<p>Aside from that, you know you&#8217;re not going to attract customers by saying &#8220;Soon a top 5 largest site from Norway is going to be using Gaia&#8221;. What we want to see is stuff that appeals to our eye, and stuff that works good. </p>
<p>My criticism mightn&#8217;t have been of much help until now, but I have a few suggestions:</p>
<p>- The fisheye widget on your screenshots page, maybe you could improve it so that elements can grow from a center point, rather than staying fixed in the top-left corner and growing from there</p>
<p>- The &#8220;Ajax Window Pageflakes&#8221; drag and drop behavior should definately be changed imho. The delay is annoying, and it just behaves stupid. Try this: Select a box, move it around just a little, then drag it back to like 10 pixels up its original location, then release your mouse. Instead of not moving (like it should because it is closest to its original location than to another element), it&#8217;s going to switch with another element.</p>
<p>- You seriously, really need a constant theme. You can have multiple themes if you want, but allow users to choose their theme or something, but by default please leave a constant theme. Just look at your WYSIWYG editor or the &#8220;trigger happy&#8221; popup that appears when you view the Pageflakes page.</p>
<p>And please change that ugly arrow in your date selection widget :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scriptor</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259192</link>
		<dc:creator>Scriptor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259192</guid>
		<description>Just a thought, but would any of this flaming have gone on if Gaia didn&#039;t charge any money?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a thought, but would any of this flaming have gone on if Gaia didn&#8217;t charge any money?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rey Bango</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259182</link>
		<dc:creator>Rey Bango</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 23:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259182</guid>
		<description>@Bryan: I guess I&#039;m still confused as I&#039;m with the Ext project myself. I&#039;m not quite sure if you&#039;re supporting our stance on commercial options or your not.

@Everyone: Please settle down guys.

@Thomas: Please refrain from personal attacks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bryan: I guess I&#8217;m still confused as I&#8217;m with the Ext project myself. I&#8217;m not quite sure if you&#8217;re supporting our stance on commercial options or your not.</p>
<p>@Everyone: Please settle down guys.</p>
<p>@Thomas: Please refrain from personal attacks.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Hansen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259175</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 21:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259175</guid>
		<description>@Michael
&quot;This is an ajaxian post about your widgets and all you are argueing about is comparing websites. Who cares if Xâ€™s is better than Yâ€™s?&quot;
Excuse me, you started the comparison, I just finished it...!
&quot;Also, in your testimonials, how about you post the pages where your widgets are actually used?&quot;
At the moment it&#039;s mostly intranet websites and/or projects in development, Gaia wa released the first time 5th of February this year and getting customers takes time! But MultiCase (http://multicase.no) will run 65% of the entire e-commerce in Norway in Gaia in less than a year from now!
And our website have lots of Gaia controls in e.g. the forums, screenshots, contact us form, registering logic etc. And we have about 1000 unique visitors per day!
And within a couple of months one of the 5 largest websites in Norway will run on Gaia...
&quot;Because right now Iâ€™m sorry, but Iâ€™d save more money and be way more confident in hiring a mexican freelancer to make Ext work on my site&quot;
Great, at your current flaming level you&#039;re _NOT_WELCOME_ as a customer of us, but feel free to have a nice life, and may your energy be better spent in the remaining parts of your life than what it was up till now :)
But only a COWARD posts incognito...!!
COWARD!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael<br />
&#8220;This is an ajaxian post about your widgets and all you are argueing about is comparing websites. Who cares if Xâ€™s is better than Yâ€™s?&#8221;<br />
Excuse me, you started the comparison, I just finished it&#8230;!<br />
&#8220;Also, in your testimonials, how about you post the pages where your widgets are actually used?&#8221;<br />
At the moment it&#8217;s mostly intranet websites and/or projects in development, Gaia wa released the first time 5th of February this year and getting customers takes time! But MultiCase (<a href="http://multicase.no" rel="nofollow">http://multicase.no</a>) will run 65% of the entire e-commerce in Norway in Gaia in less than a year from now!<br />
And our website have lots of Gaia controls in e.g. the forums, screenshots, contact us form, registering logic etc. And we have about 1000 unique visitors per day!<br />
And within a couple of months one of the 5 largest websites in Norway will run on Gaia&#8230;<br />
&#8220;Because right now Iâ€™m sorry, but Iâ€™d save more money and be way more confident in hiring a mexican freelancer to make Ext work on my site&#8221;<br />
Great, at your current flaming level you&#8217;re _NOT_WELCOME_ as a customer of us, but feel free to have a nice life, and may your energy be better spent in the remaining parts of your life than what it was up till now :)<br />
But only a COWARD posts incognito&#8230;!!<br />
COWARD!!!!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259162</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259162</guid>
		<description>@Thomas

Lol, stop it with &quot;personal attacks&quot;, and no I&#039;m not a 12 years old kid with a keyboard. If I posted my website, you would compare it then what? This is an ajaxian post about your widgets and all you are argueing about is comparing websites. Who cares if X&#039;s is better than Y&#039;s? Will that give people a good reason to purchase your widgets?

The point is, the average user does not care about how well your javascript is coded. All he wants is the thing to work. And what we see in Gaia widgets, is a bunch of ugly, non-constant themed widgets and they don&#039;t look nor work good (I&#039;m talking about the user&#039;s interaction with the widgets, not the javascript; i.e.: Fisheye widget).

Also, in your testimonials, how about you post the pages where your widgets are actually used?

Because right now I&#039;m sorry, but I&#039;d save more money and be way more confident in hiring a mexican freelancer to make Ext work on my site (assuming I don&#039;t know Javascript and don&#039;t care about learning it) rather than purchasing Gaia widgets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Thomas</p>
<p>Lol, stop it with &#8220;personal attacks&#8221;, and no I&#8217;m not a 12 years old kid with a keyboard. If I posted my website, you would compare it then what? This is an ajaxian post about your widgets and all you are argueing about is comparing websites. Who cares if X&#8217;s is better than Y&#8217;s? Will that give people a good reason to purchase your widgets?</p>
<p>The point is, the average user does not care about how well your javascript is coded. All he wants is the thing to work. And what we see in Gaia widgets, is a bunch of ugly, non-constant themed widgets and they don&#8217;t look nor work good (I&#8217;m talking about the user&#8217;s interaction with the widgets, not the javascript; i.e.: Fisheye widget).</p>
<p>Also, in your testimonials, how about you post the pages where your widgets are actually used?</p>
<p>Because right now I&#8217;m sorry, but I&#8217;d save more money and be way more confident in hiring a mexican freelancer to make Ext work on my site (assuming I don&#8217;t know Javascript and don&#8217;t care about learning it) rather than purchasing Gaia widgets.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan Grossman</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259153</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Grossman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259153</guid>
		<description>@Michael

 I didn&#039;t wright the code you are looking at,  that is the homepage of the company I work for.  BELIEVE me I have been trying for the past year and a half to rewrite that piece of crap of a page.  But the company wont let me,  that has become a political issue and taboo to talk about. (It&#039;s interdepartmental)  Sadly all the pages I have written are on intranets and are not viewable on the Internet.

 

@Rey Bango

go to this link http://extjs.com/store and view the paragraph titled &quot;License Options&quot;, that is where I lifted the quote.  But if you need more you could also go to http://extjs.com/license and look at the paragraph titled &quot;Commercial License&quot;.  You see most people want to be paid for there work... Some of you think just because you can get it for free means you shouldn&#039;t pay.  These libraries you so love are made by real people that have bills just like you and me. They spend time on maintaining these &quot;I don&#039;t have to pay a cent libraries&quot; you love so much.  If you create a page and you are making money from there work,  then I feel they need to be compensated.  I just think we should be supporting them and not taking advantage of them.  I know that this can be such a strange concept for some.

 

@Brian

Sorry about personal attack...  I get a little punchy sometimes..    But I feel that the Gaia Widgets although not as mature as some libraries deserves the right to exist and does serve a need,  that is why I am here to defend it.

 

 

The thing I don&#039;t think most understand about the Gaia Widgets is how tightly bound they are to the .NET server side.  For some this is a bad thing, If you use something other than Visual Studio to write your pages then Gaia probably isn&#039;t for you.  But if someone is using Visual Studio, noob to Ajax, don&#039;t know alot about Javascript then Gaia is for you.  Dojo and ExtJS are fantastic libraries but extra steps need to be taken to interact with the server side like a wrapper of some sort.  Gaia has implemented a framework that does this so well that it is transparent..  But the client code is dynamic enough that is is extensible.   Complete noobs can write an AJAX page without knowing a scrap of Javascript, this is threatening to some.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael</p>
<p> I didn&#8217;t wright the code you are looking at,  that is the homepage of the company I work for.  BELIEVE me I have been trying for the past year and a half to rewrite that piece of crap of a page.  But the company wont let me,  that has become a political issue and taboo to talk about. (It&#8217;s interdepartmental)  Sadly all the pages I have written are on intranets and are not viewable on the Internet.</p>
<p>@Rey Bango</p>
<p>go to this link <a href="http://extjs.com/store" rel="nofollow">http://extjs.com/store</a> and view the paragraph titled &#8220;License Options&#8221;, that is where I lifted the quote.  But if you need more you could also go to <a href="http://extjs.com/license" rel="nofollow">http://extjs.com/license</a> and look at the paragraph titled &#8220;Commercial License&#8221;.  You see most people want to be paid for there work&#8230; Some of you think just because you can get it for free means you shouldn&#8217;t pay.  These libraries you so love are made by real people that have bills just like you and me. They spend time on maintaining these &#8220;I don&#8217;t have to pay a cent libraries&#8221; you love so much.  If you create a page and you are making money from there work,  then I feel they need to be compensated.  I just think we should be supporting them and not taking advantage of them.  I know that this can be such a strange concept for some.</p>
<p>@Brian</p>
<p>Sorry about personal attack&#8230;  I get a little punchy sometimes..    But I feel that the Gaia Widgets although not as mature as some libraries deserves the right to exist and does serve a need,  that is why I am here to defend it.</p>
<p>The thing I don&#8217;t think most understand about the Gaia Widgets is how tightly bound they are to the .NET server side.  For some this is a bad thing, If you use something other than Visual Studio to write your pages then Gaia probably isn&#8217;t for you.  But if someone is using Visual Studio, noob to Ajax, don&#8217;t know alot about Javascript then Gaia is for you.  Dojo and ExtJS are fantastic libraries but extra steps need to be taken to interact with the server side like a wrapper of some sort.  Gaia has implemented a framework that does this so well that it is transparent..  But the client code is dynamic enough that is is extensible.   Complete noobs can write an AJAX page without knowing a scrap of Javascript, this is threatening to some.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Hansen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259145</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259145</guid>
		<description>@Brian
Thank you :)
I guess we could be friends after all ;)
In regards to having higher visibility of our GPL version we&#039;ve had bad experiences in regards to that since many developers do not understand the difference between the &quot;Free as in Freedom&quot; and &quot;Free as in Free Beer&quot; logic the GPL in combination with a commercial license poses. So historically before we made the GPL version &quot;less accessible&quot; (meaning you&#039;d have to look a little bit for it or know that we have one from before) more than 90% downloaded our GPL version and only 10% downloaded our Trial version. And this in combination with the fact that we&#039;ve mostly marketed our product against &quot;commercial developers&quot; felt odd to us. And also a lot of our users have proven to not know the difference between the GPL and &quot;free as in free beer&quot; licenses. So therefore we added up a couple checkboxes which you had to check out before enabling the GPL download, we blogged extensively about it and sent info in a couple of newsletters and so on. And after that about 25% are downloading our GPL version and 75% our Trial :)
Which is a more &quot;correct&quot; and probable number...
So we thought it was correct to make sure no one downloaded the wrong version according to their needs and then ran the risk of running into legal issues with their closed source applications built on top of GPL libraries...
But we have lots of &quot;back doors&quot; to the GPL version in all the correct forums where we&#039;d expect 90% of all users to KNOW what the GPL means like for instance at freshmeat.net, mono website, freesoftwaremagazine, etc...
So that&#039;s the reason why it&#039;s not advertized more than what is the case :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian<br />
Thank you :)<br />
I guess we could be friends after all ;)<br />
In regards to having higher visibility of our GPL version we&#8217;ve had bad experiences in regards to that since many developers do not understand the difference between the &#8220;Free as in Freedom&#8221; and &#8220;Free as in Free Beer&#8221; logic the GPL in combination with a commercial license poses. So historically before we made the GPL version &#8220;less accessible&#8221; (meaning you&#8217;d have to look a little bit for it or know that we have one from before) more than 90% downloaded our GPL version and only 10% downloaded our Trial version. And this in combination with the fact that we&#8217;ve mostly marketed our product against &#8220;commercial developers&#8221; felt odd to us. And also a lot of our users have proven to not know the difference between the GPL and &#8220;free as in free beer&#8221; licenses. So therefore we added up a couple checkboxes which you had to check out before enabling the GPL download, we blogged extensively about it and sent info in a couple of newsletters and so on. And after that about 25% are downloading our GPL version and 75% our Trial :)<br />
Which is a more &#8220;correct&#8221; and probable number&#8230;<br />
So we thought it was correct to make sure no one downloaded the wrong version according to their needs and then ran the risk of running into legal issues with their closed source applications built on top of GPL libraries&#8230;<br />
But we have lots of &#8220;back doors&#8221; to the GPL version in all the correct forums where we&#8217;d expect 90% of all users to KNOW what the GPL means like for instance at freshmeat.net, mono website, freesoftwaremagazine, etc&#8230;<br />
So that&#8217;s the reason why it&#8217;s not advertized more than what is the case :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rodrigo</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259140</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodrigo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259140</guid>
		<description>If someone is looking for .net controls that wrap extjs look no further.
http://www.extendersamples.qsh.eu/
see the example project there you have a link to the project page and to my blog. Its a free and open source pack of controls.
I have sent this  link to the ajaxian site ..but they never published.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If someone is looking for .net controls that wrap extjs look no further.<br />
<a href="http://www.extendersamples.qsh.eu/" rel="nofollow">http://www.extendersamples.qsh.eu/</a><br />
see the example project there you have a link to the project page and to my blog. Its a free and open source pack of controls.<br />
I have sent this  link to the ajaxian site ..but they never published.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259133</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259133</guid>
		<description>Thomas, you&#039;re absolutely right that I don&#039;t have any real world experience with your products and that does limit the actual weight of my comments above.  Any potential customer should give your products a test drive before making any final decision.  My comments come from just using the examples.

Ah, I had only seen the 30 day trial, not the free GPL version.  Forget what I said above, you guys are doing well.  It&#039;d give you guys some good mojo if the GPL version was more advertised on the front page.  I think it would build a lot more interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas, you&#8217;re absolutely right that I don&#8217;t have any real world experience with your products and that does limit the actual weight of my comments above.  Any potential customer should give your products a test drive before making any final decision.  My comments come from just using the examples.</p>
<p>Ah, I had only seen the 30 day trial, not the free GPL version.  Forget what I said above, you guys are doing well.  It&#8217;d give you guys some good mojo if the GPL version was more advertised on the front page.  I think it would build a lot more interest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Hansen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259132</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259132</guid>
		<description>@Brian
You had some onclick=&quot;something();&quot; in your elements, I guess it&#039;s &quot;pushing&quot; the limit in regards to what&#039;s considered obtrusive though, it was colored by my incentive and affections rather than my logic... ;)
BTW the business model you describe is an _exact match_ of what we&#039;re _actually doing_...
You should browse a little bit around on our website before judging... ;)
Anyway I thank you for constructive criticism all though it&#039;s pretty hard to see when you made those quotes about or samples...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian<br />
You had some onclick=&#8221;something();&#8221; in your elements, I guess it&#8217;s &#8220;pushing&#8221; the limit in regards to what&#8217;s considered obtrusive though, it was colored by my incentive and affections rather than my logic&#8230; ;)<br />
BTW the business model you describe is an _exact match_ of what we&#8217;re _actually doing_&#8230;<br />
You should browse a little bit around on our website before judging&#8230; ;)<br />
Anyway I thank you for constructive criticism all though it&#8217;s pretty hard to see when you made those quotes about or samples&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Hansen</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/new-release-of-gaia-ajax-widgets/comment-page-1#comment-259131</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=3029#comment-259131</guid>
		<description>@Brian
I owe you an apology, it was rude of me to attack you instead of Michael, I guess since Michael was not &quot;available&quot; to attack I attacked the one possible...!
Sorry :)
In regards to the part with you saying &quot;functionality is vastly superior&quot; I think you really need to check out Gaia, that sentence is pretty self-explaining in regards to that you cannot possibly have checked out neither the code nor the usage of Gaia Ajax Widgets which is a shame since it actually IS Open Source (GPL) and can be downloaded and checked out if you&#039;d like to take the time...
A very large portions of the stuff we&#039;re doing on our samples section is _impossible_ to do in _any other_ Ajax library in this world!
Secondly if you had problems loading the sample website I think Bryan is pretty dead on, there&#039;s NO WAY you can have checked out the samples and gotten those kind of results since first of all those samples are generating 1000 unique visitors per day and you are the second person in the world to say this. (the other guy had really much hatred towards us)
Also we&#039;re constantly testing both the online version and the local version for 4 browsers (Opera, Safari, IE and FF, only newest version though)
You might have been &quot;unlucky&quot; and hit the website during IIS reset/recycling of the process or something, but that&#039;s also pretty unlikely. I suggest you test them once again :)
But the main USP of Gaia is not the &quot;bling&quot; it&#039;s the code and maintainability of that code and the expressiveness you experience in regards to what you can do. Not how it looks. If you want it to look great that&#039;s no problem neither since it&#039;s basically just a CSS job...
Third when you consider our pricing policy, I realize it might be steep for some but fact is we have customer statements of how Gaia reduced Time2Market by 80%. That means with a normal salary you&#039;d save in the costs within a couple of weeks. Also we have no &quot;extra charges&quot; for support, everyone (even our GPL users) gets free support in fact. But Gaia isn&#039;t for everyone, Gaia is mainly for ASP.NET and Mono developers, if you&#039;re on another platform go ahead and use something else. But please don&#039;t post lies and/or misinformation about our samples website and scare of those who might actually benefit from using Gaia...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian<br />
I owe you an apology, it was rude of me to attack you instead of Michael, I guess since Michael was not &#8220;available&#8221; to attack I attacked the one possible&#8230;!<br />
Sorry :)<br />
In regards to the part with you saying &#8220;functionality is vastly superior&#8221; I think you really need to check out Gaia, that sentence is pretty self-explaining in regards to that you cannot possibly have checked out neither the code nor the usage of Gaia Ajax Widgets which is a shame since it actually IS Open Source (GPL) and can be downloaded and checked out if you&#8217;d like to take the time&#8230;<br />
A very large portions of the stuff we&#8217;re doing on our samples section is _impossible_ to do in _any other_ Ajax library in this world!<br />
Secondly if you had problems loading the sample website I think Bryan is pretty dead on, there&#8217;s NO WAY you can have checked out the samples and gotten those kind of results since first of all those samples are generating 1000 unique visitors per day and you are the second person in the world to say this. (the other guy had really much hatred towards us)<br />
Also we&#8217;re constantly testing both the online version and the local version for 4 browsers (Opera, Safari, IE and FF, only newest version though)<br />
You might have been &#8220;unlucky&#8221; and hit the website during IIS reset/recycling of the process or something, but that&#8217;s also pretty unlikely. I suggest you test them once again :)<br />
But the main USP of Gaia is not the &#8220;bling&#8221; it&#8217;s the code and maintainability of that code and the expressiveness you experience in regards to what you can do. Not how it looks. If you want it to look great that&#8217;s no problem neither since it&#8217;s basically just a CSS job&#8230;<br />
Third when you consider our pricing policy, I realize it might be steep for some but fact is we have customer statements of how Gaia reduced Time2Market by 80%. That means with a normal salary you&#8217;d save in the costs within a couple of weeks. Also we have no &#8220;extra charges&#8221; for support, everyone (even our GPL users) gets free support in fact. But Gaia isn&#8217;t for everyone, Gaia is mainly for ASP.NET and Mono developers, if you&#8217;re on another platform go ahead and use something else. But please don&#8217;t post lies and/or misinformation about our samples website and scare of those who might actually benefit from using Gaia&#8230;</p>
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