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	<title>Comments on: punypng: crushing your images even more</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng</link>
	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SoulMyst</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-285601</link>
		<dc:creator>SoulMyst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 22:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-285601</guid>
		<description>Across the board with my own files coming out of photoshop .gif .jpg and .png files punyPNG has beaten all the optimizers including pngoutwin I tried. It&#039;s free, works and works well. 

One test file of mine which is a 93kb .png compressed to a maximum of 73kb with pngout and punyPNG it was 62kb....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Across the board with my own files coming out of photoshop .gif .jpg and .png files punyPNG has beaten all the optimizers including pngoutwin I tried. It&#8217;s free, works and works well. </p>
<p>One test file of mine which is a 93kb .png compressed to a maximum of 73kb with pngout and punyPNG it was 62kb&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: gonchuki</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275251</link>
		<dc:creator>gonchuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275251</guid>
		<description>pngoutwin which is a GUI over pngout with several brute force options gets way more compression than punypng in almost all of the images*. Yes, it takes a lot of time (specially on my settings that runs 192 iterations per file), but it&#039;s something you do *once* and then serve the files million times :)

the overal rundown (in same order as your benchie) was: 24%, 47%, 13%, 36%, 62%, 10%, 66%, 31%, 26%

*as you see, the only big exception is the butterfly image, which for some reason doesn&#039;t get good compression on any of the standard tools [my best guess is that your tool is applying mixed filters whereas other tools apply the same filter over the whole file]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pngoutwin which is a GUI over pngout with several brute force options gets way more compression than punypng in almost all of the images*. Yes, it takes a lot of time (specially on my settings that runs 192 iterations per file), but it&#8217;s something you do *once* and then serve the files million times :)</p>
<p>the overal rundown (in same order as your benchie) was: 24%, 47%, 13%, 36%, 62%, 10%, 66%, 31%, 26%</p>
<p>*as you see, the only big exception is the butterfly image, which for some reason doesn&#8217;t get good compression on any of the standard tools [my best guess is that your tool is applying mixed filters whereas other tools apply the same filter over the whole file]</p>
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		<title>By: chuboy</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275152</link>
		<dc:creator>chuboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275152</guid>
		<description>@dolphin713: Yes, punypng support animated GIFs, but it&#039;s using gifsicle as well.  I guess the only benefit is that you don&#039;t have to run it on the command line and can do batch operations a lot easier, especially when your animated .gif is mixed in with other files and you just want to process everything at once before you release to production.

Punypng will have Animated PNG (APNG) support in the near future as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@dolphin713: Yes, punypng support animated GIFs, but it&#8217;s using gifsicle as well.  I guess the only benefit is that you don&#8217;t have to run it on the command line and can do batch operations a lot easier, especially when your animated .gif is mixed in with other files and you just want to process everything at once before you release to production.</p>
<p>Punypng will have Animated PNG (APNG) support in the near future as well.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dolphin713</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275148</link>
		<dc:creator>dolphin713</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275148</guid>
		<description>And what about animated gif optimization ? Does punypng supports it ?
I use gifsicle for windows, is there anything better ?
Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what about animated gif optimization ? Does punypng supports it ?<br />
I use gifsicle for windows, is there anything better ?<br />
Thanks</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: chuboy</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275142</link>
		<dc:creator>chuboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275142</guid>
		<description>@yereth:

Here&#039;s some usefulness of an online image crusher:
1. Most people are in need of a one-stop shop to compress all your images: GIF, PNG, and JPEGs.  Currently, there&#039;s no single offline tool that does all three formats which compression comparable to the popular libraries (PNGSquash comes close).  I was a big fan of Smush.it until they removed the upload feature in favor of YSlow integration which is why punypng fills in that niche nicely.

2. If you want to get decent file support at the command line, you will need ImageMagick which is a nightmare to install plus you&#039;ll need serious scripting abilities (kinda disqualifies most people I know).

3. Punypng&#039;s API is in the works, and once that&#039;s in place, you should be able to get image compression in any of your CMSes, like Wordpress.  Joost de Valk from Yoast emailed me this morning to start that discussion.

4. As with any online service, you get quick incremental improvements without having re-install anything on your desktop.  I don&#039;t know of any tool out there that supports Dirty Transparency, for example.

In general, you don&#039;t crush *every* image on your site, nor is it worth the time and energy.  But if you have sprites and heavy UI elements, it matters, and a free tool like punypng addresses that need perfectly.  I was able to cut our UI assets on Ask.com by half using punypng, cutting our initial load times in half.  As a top 10 internet destination, that translates into real cost-savings.

Dictionary.com got similar results using punypng.  Wikipedia will get punyified assets in a month or so thanks to GreenReaper&#039;s effort.  Evite is on it&#039;s way as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@yereth:</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s some usefulness of an online image crusher:<br />
1. Most people are in need of a one-stop shop to compress all your images: GIF, PNG, and JPEGs.  Currently, there&#8217;s no single offline tool that does all three formats which compression comparable to the popular libraries (PNGSquash comes close).  I was a big fan of Smush.it until they removed the upload feature in favor of YSlow integration which is why punypng fills in that niche nicely.</p>
<p>2. If you want to get decent file support at the command line, you will need ImageMagick which is a nightmare to install plus you&#8217;ll need serious scripting abilities (kinda disqualifies most people I know).</p>
<p>3. Punypng&#8217;s API is in the works, and once that&#8217;s in place, you should be able to get image compression in any of your CMSes, like WordPress.  Joost de Valk from Yoast emailed me this morning to start that discussion.</p>
<p>4. As with any online service, you get quick incremental improvements without having re-install anything on your desktop.  I don&#8217;t know of any tool out there that supports Dirty Transparency, for example.</p>
<p>In general, you don&#8217;t crush *every* image on your site, nor is it worth the time and energy.  But if you have sprites and heavy UI elements, it matters, and a free tool like punypng addresses that need perfectly.  I was able to cut our UI assets on Ask.com by half using punypng, cutting our initial load times in half.  As a top 10 internet destination, that translates into real cost-savings.</p>
<p>Dictionary.com got similar results using punypng.  Wikipedia will get punyified assets in a month or so thanks to GreenReaper&#8217;s effort.  Evite is on it&#8217;s way as well.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Yereth</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275141</link>
		<dc:creator>Yereth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275141</guid>
		<description>Erm.. what&#039;s the use of an online image crusher? Advertisement for the company offering it. Who&#039;s going to get all their images crushed for every website by hand, then hand over a manual to their clients where it says they should go crush their images at the online service before uploading them into the CMS?

Right...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erm.. what&#8217;s the use of an online image crusher? Advertisement for the company offering it. Who&#8217;s going to get all their images crushed for every website by hand, then hand over a manual to their clients where it says they should go crush their images at the online service before uploading them into the CMS?</p>
<p>Right&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: youngestlinton</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275139</link>
		<dc:creator>youngestlinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275139</guid>
		<description>Just tried 4 images totalling 183KB, 3 jpg, 1 png. This&#039;ll save me 3KB over what photoshop did. Not worth it in my opinion for most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just tried 4 images totalling 183KB, 3 jpg, 1 png. This&#8217;ll save me 3KB over what photoshop did. Not worth it in my opinion for most.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: 1234567890qwert</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275122</link>
		<dc:creator>1234567890qwert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275122</guid>
		<description>good service!
it is sorry that no an offline version</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good service!<br />
it is sorry that no an offline version</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cancelbubble</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275119</link>
		<dc:creator>cancelbubble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275119</guid>
		<description>What about pngslim?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about pngslim?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: blepore</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275118</link>
		<dc:creator>blepore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275118</guid>
		<description>chuboy: glad to hear it. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>chuboy: glad to hear it. :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: chuboy</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275116</link>
		<dc:creator>chuboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275116</guid>
		<description>blepore: don&#039;t give your hopes up.  An API is on its way soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>blepore: don&#8217;t give your hopes up.  An API is on its way soon.</p>
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		<title>By: blepore</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275115</link>
		<dc:creator>blepore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275115</guid>
		<description>Sigh. This got my hopes up.

What I want is an application that I can run on my servers (windows for development and linux for production) that I can run to resize all of my images, and then for the production servers have cronjobs that take the resized images (PNG, GIF, JPG) and compress them, replacing the original file. Is that so difficult to ask?

Heck, right now I am using PHP&#039;s GD functions to handle the resizing. So just having something that can be run any any server as a cron job for compression would be ideal. With many of these compression scripts they seem to do only png or only jpg, etc... not ideal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh. This got my hopes up.</p>
<p>What I want is an application that I can run on my servers (windows for development and linux for production) that I can run to resize all of my images, and then for the production servers have cronjobs that take the resized images (PNG, GIF, JPG) and compress them, replacing the original file. Is that so difficult to ask?</p>
<p>Heck, right now I am using PHP&#8217;s GD functions to handle the resizing. So just having something that can be run any any server as a cron job for compression would be ideal. With many of these compression scripts they seem to do only png or only jpg, etc&#8230; not ideal.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jlbruno</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275114</link>
		<dc:creator>jlbruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275114</guid>
		<description>I uploaded a 120kb png image that I&#039;ve worked hard at compressing locally with some tools I have (PngGauntlet, PNGOUT)

Punypng was not able to compress it any further than I already did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I uploaded a 120kb png image that I&#8217;ve worked hard at compressing locally with some tools I have (PngGauntlet, PNGOUT)</p>
<p>Punypng was not able to compress it any further than I already did.</p>
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		<title>By: EliGrey</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275112</link>
		<dc:creator>EliGrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275112</guid>
		<description>If it supports animated GIFs, it should also support APNGs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it supports animated GIFs, it should also support APNGs.</p>
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		<title>By: StanAngeloff</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275111</link>
		<dc:creator>StanAngeloff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275111</guid>
		<description>@chuboy: Yes, the optimisations as pointed above are mainly a result of the depth reduction -- OptiPNG alone is not much to go on. In most cases reducing the depth doesn&#039;t hurt since it&#039;s barely noticeable. I was just playing with this photo http://bit.ly/Dm7BR and using quantization is really paying off. It might be possible to auto-choose the best depth level for individual photos by building colour distribution histograms, though that sounds a bit far fetched for my liking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@chuboy: Yes, the optimisations as pointed above are mainly a result of the depth reduction &#8212; OptiPNG alone is not much to go on. In most cases reducing the depth doesn&#8217;t hurt since it&#8217;s barely noticeable. I was just playing with this photo <a href="http://bit.ly/Dm7BR" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/Dm7BR</a> and using quantization is really paying off. It might be possible to auto-choose the best depth level for individual photos by building colour distribution histograms, though that sounds a bit far fetched for my liking.</p>
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		<title>By: chuboy</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275110</link>
		<dc:creator>chuboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275110</guid>
		<description>@StanAngeloff: thanks for the catch, I fixed the URL for the butterfly images.

For the butterfly image, I&#039;d be interested to see how the ImageMagick+OptiPNG combo works on the original image, rather than the post-optimized one ... I&#039;d be surprised if OptiPNG can reduce it more.  I think much of the savings you were able to get were due to the ImageMagick bit depth reduction rather than the -o7 option, which raises a good point that @masterwujiang suggested regarding quantization.  At Ask.com, our sprites have to be lossless since every pixel counts, but I&#039;m definitely thinking about doing some better quantization techniques now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@StanAngeloff: thanks for the catch, I fixed the URL for the butterfly images.</p>
<p>For the butterfly image, I&#8217;d be interested to see how the ImageMagick+OptiPNG combo works on the original image, rather than the post-optimized one &#8230; I&#8217;d be surprised if OptiPNG can reduce it more.  I think much of the savings you were able to get were due to the ImageMagick bit depth reduction rather than the -o7 option, which raises a good point that @masterwujiang suggested regarding quantization.  At Ask.com, our sprites have to be lossless since every pixel counts, but I&#8217;m definitely thinking about doing some better quantization techniques now!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: StanAngeloff</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275109</link>
		<dc:creator>StanAngeloff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275109</guid>
		<description>@chuboy: Using the Pastie script above (ImageMagick + OptiPNG), I can get the butterfly image down to 58,364 bytes. On more complex images (suitable for JPEG compression), punypng drops about 7-10% in size where the I+O approach produces around 40-50% decrease. Of course punypng does lossless compression where my approach also lowers the depth of the image.
BTW on a side note, the butterfly images on the website are broken, missing the /punypng/ directory in path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@chuboy: Using the Pastie script above (ImageMagick + OptiPNG), I can get the butterfly image down to 58,364 bytes. On more complex images (suitable for JPEG compression), punypng drops about 7-10% in size where the I+O approach produces around 40-50% decrease. Of course punypng does lossless compression where my approach also lowers the depth of the image.<br />
BTW on a side note, the butterfly images on the website are broken, missing the /punypng/ directory in path.</p>
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		<title>By: WillPeavy</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275107</link>
		<dc:creator>WillPeavy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275107</guid>
		<description>Has anyone done a punypng vs. Photoshop CS4 native png compression comparison?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone done a punypng vs. Photoshop CS4 native png compression comparison?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: chuboy</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275106</link>
		<dc:creator>chuboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275106</guid>
		<description>@ray: Actually, punypng uses several open-source libraries, including AdvComp.

@mastersuwjiang: totally agree with pngnq.. .it rocks.  I&#039;ve been looking into quantization, and it&#039;s probably the next thing that punypng is going to consume to get some more puny love.

@kyriakos: I hear you re: the lack of previews.  They&#039;re on their way... many others have asked for them ;)

@ck2 and @StanAngeloff: ImageOptim which I do benchmark here (http://www.gracepointafterfive.com/punypng-benchmarks) does the shotgun approach and uses Optipng, Pngcrush, Pngout, and AdvComp.  I think punypng fares well against them, especially on transparent images through the dirty transparency support.  I&#039;d be interested to hear what kind of results you get using punypng vs the others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ray: Actually, punypng uses several open-source libraries, including AdvComp.</p>
<p>@mastersuwjiang: totally agree with pngnq.. .it rocks.  I&#8217;ve been looking into quantization, and it&#8217;s probably the next thing that punypng is going to consume to get some more puny love.</p>
<p>@kyriakos: I hear you re: the lack of previews.  They&#8217;re on their way&#8230; many others have asked for them ;)</p>
<p>@ck2 and @StanAngeloff: ImageOptim which I do benchmark here (<a href="http://www.gracepointafterfive.com/punypng-benchmarks" rel="nofollow">http://www.gracepointafterfive.com/punypng-benchmarks</a>) does the shotgun approach and uses Optipng, Pngcrush, Pngout, and AdvComp.  I think punypng fares well against them, especially on transparent images through the dirty transparency support.  I&#8217;d be interested to hear what kind of results you get using punypng vs the others.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Quotient</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/punypng/comment-page-1#comment-275102</link>
		<dc:creator>Quotient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7257#comment-275102</guid>
		<description>@iliad and @kyriakos
I agree with doing this offline. http://tinycdn.com/Utilities/TinyOptimizer here is a good tool to do minification and png crushing. It creates a backup of any files it effects and you can drag an entire folder onto the app and it will handle a nested directory structure. For the png handling it uses png crush (brute) for js and css it uses yui compressor. It is a clickonce app and uses a server for the file manipulation via webservices (why? so it doesnt have to load a lot of dependent files on the server)

Ill check out punypng, seems pretty cool and I am usually looking to get every byte out of the band.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@iliad and @kyriakos<br />
I agree with doing this offline. <a href="http://tinycdn.com/Utilities/TinyOptimizer" rel="nofollow">http://tinycdn.com/Utilities/TinyOptimizer</a> here is a good tool to do minification and png crushing. It creates a backup of any files it effects and you can drag an entire folder onto the app and it will handle a nested directory structure. For the png handling it uses png crush (brute) for js and css it uses yui compressor. It is a clickonce app and uses a server for the file manipulation via webservices (why? so it doesnt have to load a lot of dependent files on the server)</p>
<p>Ill check out punypng, seems pretty cool and I am usually looking to get every byte out of the band.</p>
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