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	<title>Comments on: Push back: Digital TV? or IE 8?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8</link>
	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 07:43:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: missjezi</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-281078</link>
		<dc:creator>missjezi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-281078</guid>
		<description>from long time ago I have really want learn about code now it&#039;s time to learn ajax</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from long time ago I have really want learn about code now it&#8217;s time to learn ajax</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: marco114</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-271193</link>
		<dc:creator>marco114</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-271193</guid>
		<description>There was a comment about IE 8 RC1 only being pushed to windows vista beta users or the such...

I am running plain old XP SP3 Media Center Edition and I just got a notice to install IE 8 RC1. It took almost 20 minutes to install on a fairly modern laptop. I actually thought it was crashed. It does seem a little snappier, but in the 4 sites I&#039;ve visited, 2 didn&#039;t work and 1 had display issues. I hope they do RC2, RC3, RC4 and RC5 before FC1, FC2, GM1, GM2, Release.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a comment about IE 8 RC1 only being pushed to windows vista beta users or the such&#8230;</p>
<p>I am running plain old XP SP3 Media Center Edition and I just got a notice to install IE 8 RC1. It took almost 20 minutes to install on a fairly modern laptop. I actually thought it was crashed. It does seem a little snappier, but in the 4 sites I&#8217;ve visited, 2 didn&#8217;t work and 1 had display issues. I hope they do RC2, RC3, RC4 and RC5 before FC1, FC2, GM1, GM2, Release.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Aimos</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-271163</link>
		<dc:creator>Aimos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-271163</guid>
		<description>Test 2 
&lt;code&gt;
&lt;button&gt;
&lt;/code&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Test 2<br />
<code><br />
&lt;button&gt;<br />
</code></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Aimos</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-271162</link>
		<dc:creator>Aimos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-271162</guid>
		<description>Test
&lt;code&gt;
 Foo bar 
&lt;/code&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Test<br />
<code><br />
 Foo bar<br />
</code></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: azappdeveloper</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-271046</link>
		<dc:creator>azappdeveloper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 05:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-271046</guid>
		<description>@AdrianBaMSFT: Thanks. You&#039;re right. Still, I don&#039;t think they should rush this one out the door -- release with Win 7. 

Being a developer myself I can tell I surf with FF and Chrome -- IE is what I use to test my work (along with the other browsers). I used to be a total IE proponent -- they lost me around the 3rd year of IE 6 LOL. I hope they come back strong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@AdrianBaMSFT: Thanks. You&#8217;re right. Still, I don&#8217;t think they should rush this one out the door &#8212; release with Win 7. </p>
<p>Being a developer myself I can tell I surf with FF and Chrome &#8212; IE is what I use to test my work (along with the other browsers). I used to be a total IE proponent &#8212; they lost me around the 3rd year of IE 6 LOL. I hope they come back strong.</p>
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		<title>By: tliebeck</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-271042</link>
		<dc:creator>tliebeck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-271042</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re seeing unbelievable performance issues in IE8, it may be related to this:
http://echo.nextapp.com/site/node/5690
(nested absolute positioned DIVs result in exponential performance degradation).

They say they&#039;ve fixed it, and they were pretty darn good about getting after it.  Mind you, I tried to make as much noise as humanly possible about the issue in the hope of calling attention to it. :D

They say they&#039;re jumping from RC1 to final though.  I strongly disagree with that idea, as I believe the difference between the final release candidate and the final release should be as trivial as possible.  I hope I&#039;m proven wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re seeing unbelievable performance issues in IE8, it may be related to this:<br />
<a href="http://echo.nextapp.com/site/node/5690" rel="nofollow">http://echo.nextapp.com/site/node/5690</a><br />
(nested absolute positioned DIVs result in exponential performance degradation).</p>
<p>They say they&#8217;ve fixed it, and they were pretty darn good about getting after it.  Mind you, I tried to make as much noise as humanly possible about the issue in the hope of calling attention to it. :D</p>
<p>They say they&#8217;re jumping from RC1 to final though.  I strongly disagree with that idea, as I believe the difference between the final release candidate and the final release should be as trivial as possible.  I hope I&#8217;m proven wrong.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AdrianBaMSFT</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-271022</link>
		<dc:creator>AdrianBaMSFT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-271022</guid>
		<description>@GregHouston: when IE8 switches into compatibility view in the way you describe it is usually because there was an issue in the IE8 rendering engine. Usually, there is nothing you can do on your site to fix the problem.

In previous beta releases, IE would show a blank page. In RC1, we flip into compatibility view to try to show you the content. If you participate in the Customer Experience Improvement Program (http://www.microsoft.com/products/ceip/en-us/default.mspx) for IE8 then this will send us information about what caused the problem so that we can fix it. There are some issues that caused this problem that we have fixed since we released RC1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@GregHouston: when IE8 switches into compatibility view in the way you describe it is usually because there was an issue in the IE8 rendering engine. Usually, there is nothing you can do on your site to fix the problem.</p>
<p>In previous beta releases, IE would show a blank page. In RC1, we flip into compatibility view to try to show you the content. If you participate in the Customer Experience Improvement Program (<a href="http://www.microsoft.com/products/ceip/en-us/default.mspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.microsoft.com/products/ceip/en-us/default.mspx</a>) for IE8 then this will send us information about what caused the problem so that we can fix it. There are some issues that caused this problem that we have fixed since we released RC1.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AdrianBaMSFT</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-271021</link>
		<dc:creator>AdrianBaMSFT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-271021</guid>
		<description>@azappdeveloper: You can find out more about the differences between IE8 in Win7 and RC1 on Vista here: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/01/10/ie8-in-windows-7-beta.aspx

Only Vista users with a beta of IE8 installed will be offered the RC1 release through Windows Update.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@azappdeveloper: You can find out more about the differences between IE8 in Win7 and RC1 on Vista here: <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/01/10/ie8-in-windows-7-beta.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/01/10/ie8-in-windows-7-beta.aspx</a></p>
<p>Only Vista users with a beta of IE8 installed will be offered the RC1 release through Windows Update.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AdrianBaMSFT</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-271020</link>
		<dc:creator>AdrianBaMSFT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-271020</guid>
		<description>@jamienk: &quot;The javascript errors are annoyingly unhelpful/inaccurate with their incorrect line numbers and cryptic messages.&quot;

The built-in developer tools including the Javascript debugger should help to figure out some of these issues. By default, when you enable the debugger, the engine will be set to break when an error occurs so you can investigate the current variables, etc. and debug the problem from there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jamienk: &#8220;The javascript errors are annoyingly unhelpful/inaccurate with their incorrect line numbers and cryptic messages.&#8221;</p>
<p>The built-in developer tools including the Javascript debugger should help to figure out some of these issues. By default, when you enable the debugger, the engine will be set to break when an error occurs so you can investigate the current variables, etc. and debug the problem from there.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dirtynine</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-271018</link>
		<dc:creator>dirtynine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-271018</guid>
		<description>Also - and no offense to ptable.com, which is a very cool demonstration of standards and styles - but that site reeks of something done just to prove it could be done using purely css, html, javascript and bells/whistles thereof.  

This does not excuse IE8 from sucking, or breaking established behaviors.  Just that the site used reeks of &quot;I don&#039;t care how tough this is - technically, I should be able to do it in CSS!&quot;-ism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also &#8211; and no offense to ptable.com, which is a very cool demonstration of standards and styles &#8211; but that site reeks of something done just to prove it could be done using purely css, html, javascript and bells/whistles thereof.  </p>
<p>This does not excuse IE8 from sucking, or breaking established behaviors.  Just that the site used reeks of &#8220;I don&#8217;t care how tough this is &#8211; technically, I should be able to do it in CSS!&#8221;-ism.</p>
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		<title>By: adamschwartz</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270987</link>
		<dc:creator>adamschwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270987</guid>
		<description>(sorry, meant @mschipperheyn -- the username on the bottom really trips me up!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(sorry, meant @mschipperheyn &#8212; the username on the bottom really trips me up!)</p>
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		<title>By: adamschwartz</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270986</link>
		<dc:creator>adamschwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270986</guid>
		<description>@iliad: I&#039;m curious too. I&#039;d be willing to bet that very few serious javascript developers use IE for anything other than testing. Firebug is just too goddamn amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@iliad: I&#8217;m curious too. I&#8217;d be willing to bet that very few serious javascript developers use IE for anything other than testing. Firebug is just too goddamn amazing.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mschipperheyn</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270975</link>
		<dc:creator>mschipperheyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 21:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270975</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just curious what percentage of developers still use IE for every day browsing and what percentage just use it for testing the websites they build.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just curious what percentage of developers still use IE for every day browsing and what percentage just use it for testing the websites they build.</p>
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		<title>By: iliad</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270962</link>
		<dc:creator>iliad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270962</guid>
		<description>Maybe we&#039;re looking at it the wrong way.

If IE8 is crappy enough, and breaks even regular popular websites, more people will start switching to alternative browsers. In fact, we should all stop submitting bugs and make MS think they&#039;ve got the perfect browser on their hands ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe we&#8217;re looking at it the wrong way.</p>
<p>If IE8 is crappy enough, and breaks even regular popular websites, more people will start switching to alternative browsers. In fact, we should all stop submitting bugs and make MS think they&#8217;ve got the perfect browser on their hands ;)</p>
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		<title>By: WillPeavy</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270961</link>
		<dc:creator>WillPeavy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270961</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a lot of negativity towards IE, but personally I&#039;m happy about the direction they&#039;re going. It seems like they are making a legitimate effort to support W3C standards: http://samples.msdn.microsoft.com/ietestcenter/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lot of negativity towards IE, but personally I&#8217;m happy about the direction they&#8217;re going. It seems like they are making a legitimate effort to support W3C standards: <a href="http://samples.msdn.microsoft.com/ietestcenter/" rel="nofollow">http://samples.msdn.microsoft.com/ietestcenter/</a></p>
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		<title>By: GregHouston</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270952</link>
		<dc:creator>GregHouston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 01:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270952</guid>
		<description>Amongst many other issues in IE8 RC1, one of my favorites is while in IE8 Standards mode an operation may work fine most of the time, but then seemingly randomly the browser will occasionally decide it needs to  switch to IE8 Compatibility/IE7 Standards mode while doing that operation. This refreshes the entire page which in the realm of web applications is similar to rebooting the OS. Good luck tracking down the issue since not only is it intermittent and thus difficult to reproduce on demand, there is no error message logged anywhere telling you exactly why it decided it suddenly needed to change rendering modes.
.
I would much rather my page break so that I can see an actual problem than for IE8 to try to adjust itself willy nilly. Break my page and give me an accurate and useful error message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amongst many other issues in IE8 RC1, one of my favorites is while in IE8 Standards mode an operation may work fine most of the time, but then seemingly randomly the browser will occasionally decide it needs to  switch to IE8 Compatibility/IE7 Standards mode while doing that operation. This refreshes the entire page which in the realm of web applications is similar to rebooting the OS. Good luck tracking down the issue since not only is it intermittent and thus difficult to reproduce on demand, there is no error message logged anywhere telling you exactly why it decided it suddenly needed to change rendering modes.<br />
.<br />
I would much rather my page break so that I can see an actual problem than for IE8 to try to adjust itself willy nilly. Break my page and give me an accurate and useful error message.</p>
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		<title>By: m3tropolis</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270948</link>
		<dc:creator>m3tropolis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270948</guid>
		<description>Time for Microsoft to LEAVE the browser business. They blew it.
 
Why does their browser (IE8 RC1) take almost an hour to install, including two reboots? Why is their browser so entwined into the OS? Haven&#039;t they LEARNED anything?
 
Goodbye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time for Microsoft to LEAVE the browser business. They blew it.</p>
<p>Why does their browser (IE8 RC1) take almost an hour to install, including two reboots? Why is their browser so entwined into the OS? Haven&#8217;t they LEARNED anything?</p>
<p>Goodbye.</p>
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		<title>By: westonc</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270947</link>
		<dc:creator>westonc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270947</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve said it before and I&#039;ll say it again: there&#039;s simply no evidence to date that Microsoft has both the intention and capability of delivering a first-rate, standards compliant, working web browser. 

There&#039;s also the question of whether they even *need* to be writing their own rendering engine, given the availability and serviceability of the open ones available.... unless it&#039;s simply a point of market pride, or they&#039;re either hedging against or already planning for a time when they will yet again diverge from agreed standards. 

I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for  the release of IE 8 to be what Microsoft has sold it as: a browser with suitably advanced standards support and the marking of a turning point towards a day where developers don&#039;t have to dump hours into multiple workarounds for shoddy implementations.

But as I see these reports come out, it seems more likely to me that all that talk was basically a &quot;take me back, honey, I&#039;ve changed&quot; that&#039;s more or less parallel to the kinds of gifts and promises that flow from an abusive spouse when their partner decides to leave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said it before and I&#8217;ll say it again: there&#8217;s simply no evidence to date that Microsoft has both the intention and capability of delivering a first-rate, standards compliant, working web browser. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s also the question of whether they even *need* to be writing their own rendering engine, given the availability and serviceability of the open ones available&#8230;. unless it&#8217;s simply a point of market pride, or they&#8217;re either hedging against or already planning for a time when they will yet again diverge from agreed standards. </p>
<p>I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for  the release of IE 8 to be what Microsoft has sold it as: a browser with suitably advanced standards support and the marking of a turning point towards a day where developers don&#8217;t have to dump hours into multiple workarounds for shoddy implementations.</p>
<p>But as I see these reports come out, it seems more likely to me that all that talk was basically a &#8220;take me back, honey, I&#8217;ve changed&#8221; that&#8217;s more or less parallel to the kinds of gifts and promises that flow from an abusive spouse when their partner decides to leave.</p>
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		<title>By: ajaxery</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270945</link>
		<dc:creator>ajaxery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270945</guid>
		<description>This is such a Microsoft move. And once again, they are shooting themselves in the foot. They&#039;ll learn eventually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is such a Microsoft move. And once again, they are shooting themselves in the foot. They&#8217;ll learn eventually.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: azappdeveloper</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/push-back-digital-tv-or-ie-8/comment-page-1#comment-270944</link>
		<dc:creator>azappdeveloper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=5844#comment-270944</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m running IE 8 on Win 7. IE 8 misbehaves at many popular and regularly visited websites. It&#039; simply not ready for realease. An now, Vista users are being urged by Windows update to upgrade to RC1. Are they nuts? Upgrade to a release candidate? Anyone who doesn&#039;t know NOT to do this is going to end up with an untested browser. Incredible. They&#039;re going to ruin the the Win7 good press they&#039;ve been getting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m running IE 8 on Win 7. IE 8 misbehaves at many popular and regularly visited websites. It&#8217; simply not ready for realease. An now, Vista users are being urged by Windows update to upgrade to RC1. Are they nuts? Upgrade to a release candidate? Anyone who doesn&#8217;t know NOT to do this is going to end up with an untested browser. Incredible. They&#8217;re going to ruin the the Win7 good press they&#8217;ve been getting.</p>
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