Tuesday, September 11th, 2007

Qooxdoo Tech Talk Presentation

Category: JavaScript, Library, Qooxdoo

<p>The first of our recorded sessions from The Ajax Experience (East coast coming!) is now live.

You can view the presentation on qooxdoo, with Andreas Ecker, Project Lead of qooxdoo and Derrell Lipman, qooxdoo Team Member.

qooxdoo is a comprehensive and innovative Open Source JavaScript framework. In this session, you’ll learn how to leverage qooxdoo to develop professional JavaScript applications, using its state-of-the-art GUI toolkit that allows for easy development of impressive cross-browser web applications. Project lead Andreas Ecker and team member Derrell Lipman will also demonstrate and discuss qooxdoo’s elegant Ajax and remote procedure call communication layers.

In this session, you will learn how to:

  • Use qooxdoo’s wide array of widgets and its tool chain to easily develop truly innovative web applications;
  • Create applications with zero-footprint and no memory leaks;
  • Have your application run transparently to the user;
  • Build applications without any knowledge of CSS or even HTML, using typical commands from other major toolkits for native applications.

Once you launch the presentation window, you will see a full transcript that you can peruse.

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Posted by Dion Almaer at 6:48 am
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RealPlayer?!?!? forget it!

Comment by Heidtmare — September 11, 2007

“zero-footprint”? As in no footprint at all? That doesn’t make any sense.

“Build applications without any knowledge of CSS or even HTML”? I thought that was the reason why so many dot-coms tanked a couple years ago?

No, but thanks, no. Back in those days as a general rule of thumb the suckiness of a business was directly proportional to the occurences of x’s and sequences of two or more vowels and consonants in the company name. The rule seems to apply to qooxdoo, too.

Comment by O'Really — September 11, 2007

“RealPlayer?!?!? forget it!”

me too!!!

Comment by Top — September 11, 2007

Real Player? Thought this one is dead for some time nowadays. It would be a major improvement if you could offer this as a simple Flash or at least Quicktime movie.

Comment by Sebastian Werner — September 11, 2007

Heidtmare, I’m with you… why RealPlayer??

O’Really, I wouldn’t manage my tech-investment portfolio by your logic but I understand, and appreciate, your skepticism. But be honest now… have you even been to qooxdoo’s website? Have you seen their demos or perused qooxdoo’s API? I have and love it! I think you will too.

As far as not dealing with CSS and HTML… this feature is not based on a pie-in-the-sky need. This feature is in line with one of qooxdoo’s main purposes – to provide a web dev platform for building desktop replacement software. When building a desktop front end developers normally deal with one language. Qooxdoo is no different. Hope that helped. Cheers!

Comment by sqville — September 11, 2007

sqville, yes, I have been to their website, have downloaded the software, have tried to get any actual work done with it, and have found out the hard way that it’s all hype and no substance. The impression one gets from the frontpage is correct, it’s fishy to no end and a product of exceptionally bad engineering.

The point is that there are numerous products by really talented people out there that Just Work(tm), and these people don’t have to resort to qooxdoo-style hyperbole (“zero-footprint”, “innovative” etc) to make an impression. Any minute spent with qooxdoo is a waste, and it should better be spent with products that actually deliver on the promises.

Comment by O'Really — September 11, 2007

@O’Really – you obviously do not know what you are talking about. qooxdoo is an exceptionally well-thought-through project. Yes, it has a learning curve and the documentation is sketchy (but did you care to have a look at the API viewer?) but so has any framework that is not just a bunch of javascripts. i am not a programmer and I have been able to build applications with qooxdoo that are in production at a university department. you had better done some research before you pass judgements.

Comment by panyasan — September 11, 2007

O’Really- you must be a web site designer and not a real developer. Anyone that has years of experience under their belt will realize the brilliance of the qooxdoo toolkit. You create on-line applications in the same way you create desktop applications, using objects and responding to events. I develop on-line applications that are used around the world by some of the largest companies (NASA, Motorola, Pratt & Whitney, Sikorsky, US Navy, Boeing etc). One of my applications is currently being used by nearly 5000 people (on a single web server) from nearly every continent and it is 100% qooxdoo front end with a custom web server back-end written in Delphi. We have had no complaints from the customers. I head the UI team, we use some off-shore developers to create some of our classes and it’s so nice to be able to instruct them to create a class that does ‘this’ and once I get it back from them I simply add it to our system and it works. So if you had issues getting something to work, you didn’t ask enough questions. Any true software developer would love the way qooxdoo works. I had some issues at first with the fact that you do not use CSS, but once I learned that CSS is slower then Javascript attribute manipulation, I got over my objections. I’m sorry that you didn’t ‘get it’, and that you didn’t see the true brilliance in this toolkit (and YES, I looked at nearly all the competitors before I chose qooxdoo to make sure I got the best toolkit for the job).

Comment by Jim Hunter — September 11, 2007

I’m passing no judgement upon qooxdoo here, but I will join the chants of “WTF is with the Real Player requirement to view this gosh darn video??”… so ajaxian _is_ with the Real Player requirement to view this gosh darn video? :-) (not downloading that POS, btw)

Comment by Ryan Gahl — September 11, 2007

Jim, panyasan, I recommend we qooxdoo-appreciators argue our points without name calling. OReally obviously had a bad experience, let’s take his word for it and channel those negative feelings towards RealPlayer (software that we unanimously agree, bites) :-)

And as far as using hyperbole to make an impression, it’s called marketing and nearly every entity on the planet does it on some level (from churches to government, individuals to industry, YUI, GWT, Dojo, ect.). My experience has been that Qooxdoo delivers on everything it promises with minimal use of puffery (marketing language). My impression of the qooxdoo team is they are more techys than marketers… which is what you want from a framework dev team :-)

Comment by sqville — September 11, 2007

Was not intending to name call, just to point out that someone that develops web sites all day thinks in terms of HTML, tags and CSS whereas someone that develops desktop applications thinks in terms of objects, classes, and events. There is a completely different state of mind between the two and to go from one to the other it is easy to see where one might think the other sucks. When I first started writing in JavaScript I HATED it. I cursed it every day. Now I do most of my coding in JavaScript (not by choice) and I have less of an issue with it.
So my point is that if you think in terms of HTML, tags and CSS, adjusting to qooxdoo would not be quick or easy. You have to give it some time and things will become more clear.

And NO I will not install RealPlayer in order to view the session either (but I also have the benefit of seeing the session live :-) so I’m not missing it).

Comment by Jim Hunter — September 11, 2007

I’m using qooxdoo for a year, and I can create very complex and dynamic apps, unconceivable with HTML+CSS+some Javascript. JS is much more powerful than it appears to at first, and very expressive.

I have a programmer background, and feel confortable with qooxdoo.

It has an equivalent to CSS (appearances and themes), but more powerful, because you can use conditionals to take into account state (focused, ….).

Now I don’t have to bother about inconsistencies between browsers.

Comment by David Perez — September 12, 2007

@O’Really: You are definitly wrong with every single word you wrote ;)

I use qooxdoo for different project I work on (private and at work) and it is one of the most powerfull toolkits out there.
It has one of the most complete widget sets, is fast (for a JS Fatlib) and really stable. The developers are nice and the mailinglist helps really at every questions.
At the moment qooxdoo makes very huge steps and there are not much other toolkits around that are as good as qooxdoo is to write webbased desktoplike apps.

I came from other languages like Delphi to qooxdoo and really love the clean structure and powerfull OO features it has, in different to many other JS libs. Also it has a good documentation and a lot of very good examples, two things the most open source projects have problems with.

Comment by LH — September 12, 2007

Jim, roger all of what you said and I completely agree (sorry for the accusation). It took me months of part-time tinkering and documentation combing to get where I am today with qooxdoo. Feels good to be beyond the framework shopping phase :-)

Comment by sqville — September 12, 2007

Excellent framework with good design and amazing team and community.
I’ve never seen something like before! I’m happy to work with qooxdoo and do something for qooxdoo. It’s really easy to create very sophisticated web application, there are many examples. Love qooxdoo!

P.S. Bad experience, wasted time…. May be you is reason?

Comment by Siarhei Barysiuk — September 12, 2007

Jim, We think in abtracts, singletons, classes and applications here, yet we handwrite javascript code and not use Quxdo (whatever). When it comes to RAD web frameworks I would prefer .NET though…

Comment by skrd — September 13, 2007

skrd, qooxdoo does have abstracts, singletons, classes and it’s used to create web applications. So I think we are on the same page. qooxdoo would save you the trouble of writing all the code yourself. Time is money, I think qooxdoo can save you time and provide you a very solid foundation for creating your applications. Unfortunately, it’s not a RAD framework (yet! IDE projects are in the works and show a lot of promise). It has a benefit over .NET in that you are not restricted to a .NET server. qooxdoo runs on any web server that supports PHP 5.

Comment by Jim Hunter — September 14, 2007

That’s not correct Jim. qooxdoo has no requirements to the web server. It even does not need PHP. It is completely independent from the backend.

Comment by Sebastian Werner — September 20, 2007

if qooxdoo is so great, why there are so few articles here on qooxdoo?
actually, this is the ONLY ONE talking about qooxdoo…

am i missing something?

Comment by Codelicious — October 9, 2007

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