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	<title>Comments on: W3C publish first working draft of File API</title>
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	<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api</link>
	<description>Cleaning up the web with Ajax</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: stonedyak</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275049</link>
		<dc:creator>stonedyak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275049</guid>
		<description>Mozilla has implemented drag and drop support for the File API, see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=503598.

You can try out this demo in a Firefox nightly build: https://bug503598.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=388413

You can even drop multiple files at once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mozilla has implemented drag and drop support for the File API, see <a href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=503598" rel="nofollow">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=503598</a>.</p>
<p>You can try out this demo in a Firefox nightly build: <a href="https://bug503598.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=388413" rel="nofollow">https://bug503598.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=388413</a></p>
<p>You can even drop multiple files at once.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pmontrasio</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275048</link>
		<dc:creator>pmontrasio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275048</guid>
		<description>Uploading files by drag and drop from the native OS to a programmatically defined destination area inside the browser window would be great. Maybe we could have a confirmation dialog to prevent accidental uploads and to make this feature&#039;s security equivalent to the one of the standard file selection box. 

XHR file upload and progress callbacks will be very useful. Progress callbacks should be available for any XHR request, not only for files.

A way to query progress even for non-XHR file uploads would also be useful but it could be skipped if the browser reports about the progress of the uploads of every single file.

@Deadmeat: access to local files is a matter of trust. The OS itself or any famous application running on your machine (Office, Photoshop, any web browser) could be sending a copy of all your files to a remote server right now. All you can do is trust your vendor or the users&#039; community, read the source code if available, monitor your Internet connection. The companies running web applications are usually way more obscure than the vendors of OS or mainstream applications so trust is lower. Flash and also Java (Silverlight as well?) can access files, webcam and microphone but only after prompting the user for permission and I&#039;m sure you grant permission only to applications you trust. There are no reasons why JavaScript shouldn&#039;t be able to do the same. The only problem I see is that it will lower the barrier to entry for attackers: there are probably less people that can write Flash, Java and Silverlight than there are that can write JavaScript. As a countermeasure permissions should be granted on a single file basis and/or variables and DOM elements getting content from local files should be marked as tainted and the browser should not be able to send their values to a remote server.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uploading files by drag and drop from the native OS to a programmatically defined destination area inside the browser window would be great. Maybe we could have a confirmation dialog to prevent accidental uploads and to make this feature&#8217;s security equivalent to the one of the standard file selection box. </p>
<p>XHR file upload and progress callbacks will be very useful. Progress callbacks should be available for any XHR request, not only for files.</p>
<p>A way to query progress even for non-XHR file uploads would also be useful but it could be skipped if the browser reports about the progress of the uploads of every single file.</p>
<p>@Deadmeat: access to local files is a matter of trust. The OS itself or any famous application running on your machine (Office, Photoshop, any web browser) could be sending a copy of all your files to a remote server right now. All you can do is trust your vendor or the users&#8217; community, read the source code if available, monitor your Internet connection. The companies running web applications are usually way more obscure than the vendors of OS or mainstream applications so trust is lower. Flash and also Java (Silverlight as well?) can access files, webcam and microphone but only after prompting the user for permission and I&#8217;m sure you grant permission only to applications you trust. There are no reasons why JavaScript shouldn&#8217;t be able to do the same. The only problem I see is that it will lower the barrier to entry for attackers: there are probably less people that can write Flash, Java and Silverlight than there are that can write JavaScript. As a countermeasure permissions should be granted on a single file basis and/or variables and DOM elements getting content from local files should be marked as tainted and the browser should not be able to send their values to a remote server.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: chiaroscuro</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275046</link>
		<dc:creator>chiaroscuro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275046</guid>
		<description>FileList must be a plain-old array or a singly-linked list (this isn&#039;t obvious in the spec), so that JS/C++/Java/Python/etc. developers can use their native tools for the job. And you know they will.

Usage of error codes in 2009 seems kind of... obsolete. Structured exceptions came from ML, where they are represented simply as datatypes. Why isn&#039;t it the case in the IDL?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FileList must be a plain-old array or a singly-linked list (this isn&#8217;t obvious in the spec), so that JS/C++/Java/Python/etc. developers can use their native tools for the job. And you know they will.</p>
<p>Usage of error codes in 2009 seems kind of&#8230; obsolete. Structured exceptions came from ML, where they are represented simply as datatypes. Why isn&#8217;t it the case in the IDL?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Deadmeat</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275045</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadmeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275045</guid>
		<description>You can prompt users to save &quot;new&quot; files by using data uris in links. so href=&quot;data:text/saveme;base64,......&quot;

Which isn&#039;t quite the same thing. But then writing to local files is a whole other kettle of fish opening up way too many avenues for malicious sites to write files to disk.

Quite rightly runtimes like Adobe Air et al, are much more suited for that sort of application.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can prompt users to save &#8220;new&#8221; files by using data uris in links. so href=&#8221;data:text/saveme;base64,&#8230;&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Which isn&#8217;t quite the same thing. But then writing to local files is a whole other kettle of fish opening up way too many avenues for malicious sites to write files to disk.</p>
<p>Quite rightly runtimes like Adobe Air et al, are much more suited for that sort of application.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: aheckmann</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275044</link>
		<dc:creator>aheckmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275044</guid>
		<description>I love the idea of being able to open local files, make changes, and save them back to the users local file system. This would be huge for pushing the web forward as a platform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the idea of being able to open local files, make changes, and save them back to the users local file system. This would be huge for pushing the web forward as a platform.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Deadmeat</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275040</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadmeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275040</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d be interested in being able to access files as mime style packages. (similar to emails and MHTML.)

This would provide a low rent way to have multipart structured files. Of course the would make the API more complex since you&#039;d want to be able to read each part individually. This would be useful for apps that want to load and save multipart data in a single file such that you didn&#039;t need to prompt the user to select multiple files or embed and decode multiple files in a single file.

This is easily fakeable if the file is already an MHTML document, by reading as text and parsing. I&#039;d be nice if this was baked in though.

Would make for a really simple shorthand for generating email attachments too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be interested in being able to access files as mime style packages. (similar to emails and MHTML.)</p>
<p>This would provide a low rent way to have multipart structured files. Of course the would make the API more complex since you&#8217;d want to be able to read each part individually. This would be useful for apps that want to load and save multipart data in a single file such that you didn&#8217;t need to prompt the user to select multiple files or embed and decode multiple files in a single file.</p>
<p>This is easily fakeable if the file is already an MHTML document, by reading as text and parsing. I&#8217;d be nice if this was baked in though.</p>
<p>Would make for a really simple shorthand for generating email attachments too.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Deadmeat</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275039</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadmeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275039</guid>
		<description>Progress events/status falls outside the scope of this article since that is not part of the File API, but the XmlHttpRequest API.

That said, I don&#039;t agree with progress events, simply allowing the script to periodically poll the request would be simpler, and effectively the same thing.

Upload progress is something that should already be exposed in the browser. Primarily as a progress widget similar to the loading progress bars (which are largely fake, since total page size includes all the images, scripts etc.) The browser should know how big the request is, and how much data has been sent. It just needs to expose that information, visually or via JS. 

This shouldn&#039;t be limited to the request either. Responses should be accessible too. Access to data loaded, and the http size header would be nice as well, and not just for AJAX Requests. Frame, img, video, audio etc objects would be nice too. Potentially allowing for pretty pre-loaders for these elements.

However as I said, whole other kettle of fish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Progress events/status falls outside the scope of this article since that is not part of the File API, but the XmlHttpRequest API.</p>
<p>That said, I don&#8217;t agree with progress events, simply allowing the script to periodically poll the request would be simpler, and effectively the same thing.</p>
<p>Upload progress is something that should already be exposed in the browser. Primarily as a progress widget similar to the loading progress bars (which are largely fake, since total page size includes all the images, scripts etc.) The browser should know how big the request is, and how much data has been sent. It just needs to expose that information, visually or via JS. </p>
<p>This shouldn&#8217;t be limited to the request either. Responses should be accessible too. Access to data loaded, and the http size header would be nice as well, and not just for AJAX Requests. Frame, img, video, audio etc objects would be nice too. Potentially allowing for pretty pre-loaders for these elements.</p>
<p>However as I said, whole other kettle of fish.</p>
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		<title>By: meandmycode</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275038</link>
		<dc:creator>meandmycode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275038</guid>
		<description>@EliGrey, great - didn&#039;t know that, hopefully a specification can push things along more, given the only way specifications become final is after x amount of implementations?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@EliGrey, great &#8211; didn&#8217;t know that, hopefully a specification can push things along more, given the only way specifications become final is after x amount of implementations?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: BH23</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275037</link>
		<dc:creator>BH23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275037</guid>
		<description>I think the most important thing is to integrate this into XHR to ease all of the iframe hacks for uploading files asynchronously.

I would also vote that if there is a progress API that you can specify the call rate and the callback something like this:
&lt;code&gt;
var rate = 2000; // milliseconds between each report
loader.registerProgressListener(rate, function(uploadedBytes,totalBytes,bytesPerSecond){
 //...
})
&lt;/code&gt;
it is important to be able to control the rate of reporting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the most important thing is to integrate this into XHR to ease all of the iframe hacks for uploading files asynchronously.</p>
<p>I would also vote that if there is a progress API that you can specify the call rate and the callback something like this:<br />
<code><br />
var rate = 2000; // milliseconds between each report<br />
loader.registerProgressListener(rate, function(uploadedBytes,totalBytes,bytesPerSecond){<br />
 //...<br />
})<br />
</code><br />
it is important to be able to control the rate of reporting.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Darkimmortal</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275036</link>
		<dc:creator>Darkimmortal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275036</guid>
		<description>Yay, finally another useful thing in HTML5 that Flash actually doesn&#039;t do better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay, finally another useful thing in HTML5 that Flash actually doesn&#8217;t do better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: nixon</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275035</link>
		<dc:creator>nixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275035</guid>
		<description>does work on file &#039;type&#039; will put pressure on browser developers to resolve 2GB limit bug? For now, trying to upload file larger than 2GB result with silent crash or bad headers (Content-Length below zero)..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>does work on file &#8216;type&#8217; will put pressure on browser developers to resolve 2GB limit bug? For now, trying to upload file larger than 2GB result with silent crash or bad headers (Content-Length below zero)..</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jdhuntington</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275034</link>
		<dc:creator>jdhuntington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275034</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d love to be able to upload a file via XHR, then be able to query that process for progress information.
&lt;em&gt;Note that I&#039;d prefer this to callbacks, as it would give me more control over when the UI is updated.&lt;/em&gt;

Access to binary data would also be a big win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to be able to upload a file via XHR, then be able to query that process for progress information.<br />
<em>Note that I&#8217;d prefer this to callbacks, as it would give me more control over when the UI is updated.</em></p>
<p>Access to binary data would also be a big win.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: EliGrey</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275032</link>
		<dc:creator>EliGrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275032</guid>
		<description>Spoke, iliad, meandmycode: Firefox already supports many FileList features (and has for a while).

&lt;code&gt;&gt;&gt;var file = document.getElementById(&quot;some-file-input&quot;);&lt;/code&gt;
&lt;code&gt;&gt;&gt;[property for (property in file.files.item(0))].join(&quot;, &quot;)&lt;/code&gt;
&lt;code&gt;getAsDataURL, fileName, fileSize, getAsText, getAsBinary&lt;/code&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spoke, iliad, meandmycode: Firefox already supports many FileList features (and has for a while).</p>
<p><code>&gt;&gt;var file = document.getElementById("some-file-input");</code><br />
<code>&gt;&gt;[property for (property in file.files.item(0))].join(", ")</code><br />
<code>getAsDataURL, fileName, fileSize, getAsText, getAsBinary</code></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Spocke</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275029</link>
		<dc:creator>Spocke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275029</guid>
		<description>@iliad: One could just hope that both the WebKit and Gecko teams implement this feature. The current state is that WebKit doesn&#039;t have support for any of the file methods. You can just extract the name and the size of the selected files. Gecko has most of the methods but not one important one for slicing the files into smaller chunks. I hope both vendors implement the W3C spec soon and think about memory management this is an awesome concept and would remove the need for Flash or Gears for uploading many and large files.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@iliad: One could just hope that both the WebKit and Gecko teams implement this feature. The current state is that WebKit doesn&#8217;t have support for any of the file methods. You can just extract the name and the size of the selected files. Gecko has most of the methods but not one important one for slicing the files into smaller chunks. I hope both vendors implement the W3C spec soon and think about memory management this is an awesome concept and would remove the need for Flash or Gears for uploading many and large files.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Spocke</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275026</link>
		<dc:creator>Spocke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275026</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s really nice to see that there is a good specification for the File API. It&#039;s a bummer though that the Mozilla team hasn&#039;t implemented it fully and doesn&#039;t have support for the slice method this makes it very unpractical when you handle large files for example a video stream since it then loads the whole contents into memory before sending it using for example a XHR call.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s really nice to see that there is a good specification for the File API. It&#8217;s a bummer though that the Mozilla team hasn&#8217;t implemented it fully and doesn&#8217;t have support for the slice method this makes it very unpractical when you handle large files for example a video stream since it then loads the whole contents into memory before sending it using for example a XHR call.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: iliad</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275024</link>
		<dc:creator>iliad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275024</guid>
		<description>I really like the idea above. It would be very useful to have such a granular control over file uploads.
Now, the question is, when can I start using it in FiCOS? (Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari ;))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like the idea above. It would be very useful to have such a granular control over file uploads.<br />
Now, the question is, when can I start using it in FiCOS? (Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari ;))</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gossi</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275022</link>
		<dc:creator>gossi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275022</guid>
		<description>With JavaScript the following methods (kinda similar to video/audio):

start() stop() and cancel(), so it is not necessary to submit a form rather than to access it by script. DOM Events like stated above to receive information about the current upload.

Just imagine if you are just interessted in the head of a file, you can do sth like:

var input = document.getElementById(&quot;...&quot;);
var file = input.files.item(0);
input&#124;file.addEventListener(&quot;track?&quot;, function(e) {
if (e.currentSize &gt;= [size in kb thats needed]) {
file.stop();
// continue with e.filedata
}
}

I didn&#039;t have a look into the spec, so the code is just to describe my words above... kinda :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With JavaScript the following methods (kinda similar to video/audio):</p>
<p>start() stop() and cancel(), so it is not necessary to submit a form rather than to access it by script. DOM Events like stated above to receive information about the current upload.</p>
<p>Just imagine if you are just interessted in the head of a file, you can do sth like:</p>
<p>var input = document.getElementById(&#8220;&#8230;&#8221;);<br />
var file = input.files.item(0);<br />
input|file.addEventListener(&#8220;track?&#8221;, function(e) {<br />
if (e.currentSize &gt;= [size in kb thats needed]) {<br />
file.stop();<br />
// continue with e.filedata<br />
}<br />
}</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t have a look into the spec, so the code is just to describe my words above&#8230; kinda :)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: meandmycode</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275020</link>
		<dc:creator>meandmycode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275020</guid>
		<description>Ooo, being able to get hold of the binary in javascript will make so many new things possible..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooo, being able to get hold of the binary in javascript will make so many new things possible..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ossreleasefeed</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275019</link>
		<dc:creator>ossreleasefeed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275019</guid>
		<description>I second the above, DOM events for tracking upload progress would be awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second the above, DOM events for tracking upload progress would be awesome.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jaaap</title>
		<link>http://ajaxian.com/archives/w3c-publish-first-working-draft-of-file-api/comment-page-1#comment-275018</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaaap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajaxian.com/?p=7218#comment-275018</guid>
		<description>I vote for DOM events for every percent uploaded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I vote for DOM events for every percent uploaded.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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