Comments on: YUI BorderLayout: Rich cross browser layouts

By: sephi’s tips!»Blog Archive » YUI BorderLayout: Rich cross browser layouts

Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:40:49 +0000

[...] http://ajaxian.com/archives/yui-borderlayout-rich-cross-browser-layouts • • • [...]

By: Steffen

Steffen — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 22:14:49 +0000

If you want it smaller, i.e. no YUI, and more "web compliant", check out RUZEE.LayoutManager.

By: fqkomoq

fqkomoq — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:06:32 +0000

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By: Marc’s Voice » Blog Archive » 8 days til Halloween Monday links

Marc’s Voice » Blog Archive » 8 days til Halloween Monday links — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:16:57 +0000

[...] More coolio YUI stuff [...]

By: Christopher Steen

Christopher Steen — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 02:52:44 +0000

Link Listing – October 22, 2006

YUI BorderLayout: Rich cross browser layouts [Via: Dion Almaer ] ASP.NET AJAX Beta 1 Released [Via:…

By: Jacob Hookom

Jacob Hookom — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:07:17 +0000

Jack may comment, but from his site, he’s noted that someone could have everything look normal if they didn’t have JavaScript. You could probably slap on your DIVs with a ‘normal’ CSS, but with the JavaScript enabled, swap in the intended CSS style along with the layout.

By: Philip Plante

Philip Plante — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 22:42:11 +0000

What is a user that has Javascript disabled supposed to do? I know that there are a small portion of users that do that today, but I would say there are enough of them that it could be a problem.
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Try disabling Javascript and going back to his example page, it ends up blank. This could be solved with some more Javascript to set the style on those divs instead of doing it in the CSS.
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Its a nice fluid layout, just has a few quirks :)

By: Scott Schiller

Scott Schiller — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:11:27 +0000

Jacob, Jack, I agree with your point (er, disagreeing with me? Hey, wait a second! ;) ) ..I commented further on your actual blog (Jack’s) after playing around with the more complicated examples a bit more, and while I don’t like the general idea of using JS for layout, I understand the reasoning and agree that what you’ve done looks like a pretty nice, effective and (most importantly!) worry-free from a development standpoint sort of solution.

I nitpick UI stuff a lot (I imagine as you do the same), and aim to keep things as fast and responsive as possible. Of those, “live redrawing” with resize events is one – but I know Firefox is somewhat annoying in the way it delays those events. It might not be realistic to be constantly re-rendering the UI in responding to resize events also (CPU load), which is understandable.

I completely agree with your points on CSS hacks and other common layout headaches; you’ve done a very good job with that. I really wish we were able to do these kind of layouts without having to rely on Javascript, but this seems to be the way things are going. I’ve started a discussion with some other folks here (Y!) around this, “at what point does JS need to be considered for layout”, etc. Thanks for the inspiration and examples to reference! :)

By: Jack Slocum

Jack Slocum — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:01:59 +0000

Scott, I would have to disagree as well.

For the user, the delayed resize might not be the normal way pages react to resizing but I think I the other usability features make up for it. I doubt there will be any users complaining “The page doesn’t resize constantly while I resize the window!”.

For the developer, to not have to worry about CSS hacks, box-model differences, doc-type differences, etc.. imagine the time you would save and can spend actually implementing the logic for your application.

It’s not for everyone, that I do agree. But I don’t think the resize behavior degrades the users experience enough to offset the things gained, both for the user and the developer.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:05:27 +0000

I have to disagree with you, only if there was some fluid animation attempted would this be problematic (lack of performance), but it reacts no differently that windows.

By: Scott Schiller

Scott Schiller — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:47:48 +0000

While a neat idea, this is really where CSS should apply. Resizing the first demo in Firefox as an example, you see that the UI lags behind the browser (text doesn’t resize “real-time”) given that window.onresize doesn’t fire until the user slows down or stops resizing enough to “allow” it to catch up. That isn’t a terribly nice UI experience.

It could be argued that CSS has failed in this area (fluid two-column layouts, etc.) and thus JS should be used, but I think scripting layout at this basic level is still less-than-optimal and non-standard, and generally slower than native CSS.

Looking at the more dynamic side, there’s no question that Javascript applies with the “collapsible” property, etc.

Pardon the rant, an interesting experiment nonetheless! :)